Taxation without Representation Sun City Style

You all could be right... The question on my mind is whether we can positively engage our members in the process of how we spend OUR money and get them excited about our future. We have all experienced the outliers who care only about numero one. I am betting that is not the majority.

I was a prime motivator for opening up the financial information for members knowing full well that few members have the training or knowledge to understand what they are looking at. Several have proved me right and nobody found a huge "gotcha". Now the financials are yawn worthy although those with little training keep trying to tweak them.

So, my question is this? What, other than a nap or winning the lottery, gets old folks excited about what little future they have left? And yes, I resemble my own remark. There must be something so compelling that folks say to themself - "I want to be a part of that." Ideas?

 

I know my opinion is not valued, and probably not wanted. I can speak for my friends, neighbors and posts I read on Nextdoor. People want simple. At least the 70+ age group does. People purchase here because it's affordable, otherwise they would buy in Festival, Verrado, Grand, AZ Traditions. Yes Bill I am sure there are millionaires here, but on the other side of the coin 10% live below poverty level and I would guess most are comfortable middle class.

My guess re the few who are so concerned about the future of Sun City (20-50 years from now) want a name for themselves. Truthfully how many people do you think actually care about what happens to a city they live in now after they are dead? Retirees have worked hard for most of their lives and now it's their time to stay home, golf, bowl, hike, do whatever in the hell they want to do. Generally people do not want to be burdened with the issues that are going on here right now with RCSC.

People look at these blogs, read the paper, talk on social media and SC does not have a good look right now. I have been told I am not a good person because I don't volunteer. That is not how to win friends and influence people when most have worked their butts off and just want to relax during "their golden years". What has gone on in SC for 10+ years is not Golden. Lead, maybe.

But you all keep doing what you are doing, it's working right?

 

Josie I often read your posts and cringe, but this one touched on something that has me perplexed. How do you write the next chapter of a book for a community when the readers are already in their final chapter. For Del it was easier. He was chasing profits and was rewarded for his innovation. But what motivates volunteers to do the same? I wish I had answers to this intellectually fascinating puzzle. My only opinion, and it is a strong one, is the process has to be directed from someone looking from the outside in and not the inside out - an urban planner. Someone that wants to make a name for themselves.

 

Cringe away. And most people don't want a namesake, if they did they would not be here. Most are afraid to die, or talk about it. I am not. Del was starting out in his life, the people who move here are at the end of life. The volunteer issue is a whole different ball game. Sun Health revered and celebrated their volunteers, Banner does not and Sun City berates you if you don't volunteer. I just spent an hour on the phone with my 85 year old neighbor. She has lived here since 2000 or so. She does not want to be involved in all the BS here.

I worked for Sun Health/Banner for 17 years. Volunteers should be appreciated. SC does not and as well as you know me I do have proof of that.

Let me ask you this John, will you care if there is a $14 million PAC here after you are dead or would you prefer to see our existing facilities taken care of?

Sun City has turned into a very sad place. (cringe)

 

OK - I was fully cringed up until your question and then you returned to cringe worthy in your last sentence.
Yes, I care about all the communities I live or have lived in. I feel I am a reflection of them, and they are a reflection of me.

As far as any proposed new building in Sun City is concerned, it seems to me we do not "take stock" of what we have, what we use it for, what condition it is in and how much we use it. A master plan cures that, but it requires long-term thinking to avoid costly mistakes. My observation of this and previous boards is we are institutionally incapable of such thinking. I made a motion to amend the bylaws to require RCSC to engage an expert to do this thinking for us but, disappointingly, the Board pushed back. And so, it began. Yes, Josie I care if the community dies when I die because I have at least one kid who wants to inherit this house.

 

It's a fascinating challenge/problem and has been on the radar for residents since the day DEVCO left to start anew in Sun City West. There's always been the naysayers who've proclaimed we would fail and the community would die. That was some 45 years ago (1980) and we are still going strong. And to be really clear, there's always been problems within the community and those living here sorted them and survived in spite of the challenges.

It will again this time. Usually these internal struggles have resulted in members stepping up and forward and pushing for change. The small minority of whiners get elevated to a position of much higher percentages than they are. Those serious enough to get involved will be the ones to help redirect and shape the future. It seldom is all one way, we know historically compromise has been the norm. The middle ground most often provided the solution.

As far as Webb, he made a boatload of money (along with Boswell) by investing in Sun City. By 1980, their before tax profits were 170 million dollars. It was the impetus behind their actions. That's why i seldom use Webb as the reason for Sun City's success, John Meeker was the genius behind it. He and his team were instrumental in creating that sense of community. We can learn so much from their marketing approach.

That was yesterday's news, today's is interesting. The internal struggles between the board, the general manager and whatever RCSC members actively involved as we move into the annual membership meeting next week are just another chapter in community activism. Forcing change has been a standard bearer and one of the reasons i refuse to get overly excited by any one action or effort.

And to be perfectly clear about the nonsense about volunteers, i posted survey results from the 1980's and even then less than 50% of those living here donated time in one form or another. Between all of the organizations, all of the clubs and all of churches there are endless opportunities to donate back a small piece of a members spare time. The suggestion that if you don't volunteer you are shamed is foolishness. It's simply up to each person to decide.

I approach the question John asks a little differently and i have no qualms over his answer about outside intervention. Solutions are most often multi-leveled. In my case, looking within is the easiest and cheapest of options. We know historically (until 2006) committees were revered and respected for their involvement and community direction. We need get back there.

The best recent examples have come from the long range planning committee and budget and financing committees. Both took extraordinary steps of becoming more open and transparent. On a lessor note has been the SAC, which i thought was brilliant and the bylaws committee rewrite. Unfortunately, in most of those cases, the board had a huge problem in letting go and trusting the groups work product and intervening with their own ideas.

Understanding the unique qualities of a community of smart people who are willing to get involved and become part of the solution means trusting them and believing they are doing it for the right reasons. Those 15 years of pushing members away has shown us there is a lingering trust issue and at some point for this to work, the board needs to get past that.

I suspect, that's where an outside consultant can be most effective. I think back to two individuals who were pretty darned good at finding middle ground; Marlene from the SAC, and the ASU professor doing the survey, both were exceptional as they intervened and both were summarily dispatched at projects end. In fairness, neither of their roles were long term, however watching both tells me there is potential in this exercise.

While it's easy to get too invested in what is going on as we approach the annual membership, this too shall pass. Decisions will be made, calmer heads will prevail and solutions will be found. All of us, board, GM and membership, who truly care about the community we love and live in will insure we continue on. There will be problems, for sure.

The mistakes we made by trying to get by on the cheap will haunt us for years to come. Every decision will be magnified, as those who simply wanted a cheap place to live will be frustrated by rising costs and aging amenities. The golf courses will be a huge problem and one with few answers given the current challenges. Adding more costs with more amenities that drive up costs seems foolish to me at this point.

A lot of members are focused on using what we do own more effectively, rather than adding square footage to our amenity package that too would be used minimally. Since the day DEVCO left, the RCSC and the membership have always faced these types of problems. More importantly, we've always found solutions, as we will this time as well.

While that small cadre on moaners tells us Sun City is dead and buried, it's not. We'll be just fine because too many of us care too much to let it die. It's as simple as that and it always has been.

Just one man's opinion.

 

Your opinion and you know the saying.

I don't see it that way. Most people are invested in the community where they raise their children. Retirement is different. Most folks just want to relax and play. Member involvement here is almost nonexistent.

As it has been for a long time.

I have never said let this community go to hell. I have always said we should maintain what we have. If the next generation wants a $14 million building let them build it. I am not responsible for financing things your or anyone's children's future. The majority of folks here just want simple or they would not have purchased here. My family just wants the money, not the house. They don't want anything to do with Sun City. Now that's cringe.

 

Let's continue this discussion with a more forward look. The other day at the membership meeting i was sitting with a member of the golf advisory committee who has been very active as both a golfer and involved in the game's direction. We stepped outside and i asked him this simple question: "How many golf courses do you think we will need in ten years?" He scratched his head and replied honestly, "i don't know?"

Good answer, because who does know? Nothing is a given in life, but trends most often make for predictable outcomes. For some strange reason, we've been either unwilling or unable to ask, let alone answer or explore, these kinds of questions. Hell, when i was on the board and looking at 50 million dollars of proposed golf course and golf outbuilding investments (PIF), i asked what was the plan to try and grow the sport or recover the costs?

We had none, other than to sell golf well below market levels and hope it worked out. Sadly, it was how we did everything for too many years. There was no vision or strategy or any type of objective questioning on what we were doing. It was illogical on its face and no one seemed to care. It was just like "whatever" as if the bill would never come due. The reality is, the bill always comes due.

The point here is we cannot afford to function in a vacuum of pretending we can afford everything members want. In fact, we need to be meeting, asking and working toward those hard answers...you know, the ones people want to pretend aren't important. Every aspect of our Sun City way of life and the changing demographics should be front and center. I have no preconceived notions of what the answers are, but i am smart enough to know we need to be better equipped to make hard choices as we plow forward. If nothing else, what we did for too many years should scream that at us.

Outside help, yup, if we include the members and are willing to be aggressively blunt in our quest for smart choices. Getting to that point won't be easy, especially given where we are as we head into the annual membership meeting with the mood where it is.

We'll see eh?

 

No, I wouldn’t care because I’m dead and I can’t do anything about it.

 

who are you talking to?

 

Apparently it was you if you read the post including the colored box with comment.

 

Bill,
I am quite certain answering the hard questions is possible if we care to do the level of professional analysis required and listen to what the data tells us. Can we do this soul wrenching work internally? I am certain we cannot. Why? IMHO those seeking something always contort the data to create the perception that their agenda is the best cause. A professional planner who recognizes this dynamic may help us step off the ledge and back into the building. It takes fantastic facilitation skills but that is what I think is required and we would be foolish not to seek out and find the right guru.

The other observation I've had is regardless of who gets elected they inevitably get the God complex. A god complex is an unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility.[1] The person is also highly dogmatic in their views, meaning the person speaks of their personal opinions as though they were unquestionably correct.[2] Someone with a god complex may exhibit no regard for the conventions and demands of society, and may request special consideration or privileges. IMHO Once the God complex sets in the Board member inevitably disenfranchises the membership and spend little to no effort to engage them.

 

I agree, John, that a professional strategic planning organization will move us forward more efficiently and effectively than doing so within. A team of professionals is better than a single person because more than one perspective is valuable.

However I disagree that people who are elected to boards always "get the God complex". Most people realize their limitations and seek to find solutions to problems through compromise. Janet

 

The RCSC offers no training to the members of the community as to how or what our community governance looks like. So, it’s not until the person is elected to office they get a crash course on managing the community. The GM, in the past, has been a great influence on the direction of the business of managing the corporation. So, in my opinion, the learning curve to being a leader in Sun City’s governance is at least a minimum of a year. Add to the mix the growing number of needs and challenges that arise and the task of managing the community is a heavy burden. This is done by volunteers who have stepped up to meet the challenges of Sun City.
Are there going to be missteps along the way? Sure. These are not professional politicians, they are average citizens who have been elected and are trying to do the best they can moving forward.
Could this community benefit from a process manager to help get some strategic planning in place? Yes, in light of recent developments, I feel adding a professional manager to help develop a roadmap for the future would be most beneficial.
In my opinion developing and implementing a roadmap for Sun City is critical.

 

I agree 100%. Well Said!