Say "No" To Proposed Bylaw Amendment

John has been very generous with his time and attention to the information posted in regards to his proposed amendment. I applaud his diligence in his presentation and follow-up.
I cannot ask the board or the members to support this action for several reasons. They are:
ADDITIONAL COSTS TO THE MEMBERS

• As I read the proposal I see costs being incurred far beyond a contract hire of a Project Manager
• Costs to print and mail ballots
• Advertising costs advising of pending votes/meetigs
• Cost of additional staff to support the new amendment
• Increase to assesment and not receiving any additional amenities

ANOTHER LAYER OF MANAGEMENT TO THE RCSC

• The new manager needed to support the voting will be another layer of beaucracy within the RCSC structure in the decision making process
• The new manager would need to be a full time position as trying to manage the budget, requests, timelines, expected outcomes would need more than a part time involvement.
• The possibility of litigation arising from the amount of votes cast versus the population.
• Popular vote versus percentage or registered members? Popular vote can lead to voting blocs causing unfair and unjust results.
• Additional staffing needs to meet the new job requirements

I feel this proposed bylaw amendment sounds attractive on the surface, but is frought with pitfalls, mostly for the membership. I feel getting the membership to a point of beng a cohesive group and seeking ways to engage them is a better effort rather than trying to ask an already apathetic member base to be responsible for the future of this community. I see costs increasing to the members if this amendment is passed, and of course, those costs being pssed along in the form of an increased yearly assessment. If there is going to be an increase, let it be for additional amenities, not more management requiring additional oversight and costs.

 

I really want to give you a big thumbs up. The past 12 months have been a giant goat rope, and I will be the first to admit I have no clue. I know where SC has been, but not where it's going. I would bet if I looked back there would be many conflicting statements from today to last year.

I think the fact this has all been done by 1 person with a couple others chiming in every now and then makes me wonder how much the members really matter.

 

SCG
I applaud and appreciate your advocacy but find your assertions farfetched and designed to instill fear rather than stating facts. Almost none of what you said is based in fact. First, the voting would occur annually at the member meeting and only if a quorum is present. The voting is done by those represented at the meeting the same way as it is today. The plan is developed by an expert who is supported, not guided, by committees, the board and members. There is no extra staff involved, extra layers of management, increased assessments, or any of the other stuff you are asserting and you know that.

I am sorry but I do not respect your post. I welcome any conversation about facts and improving Sun City But, unfortunately, I can see your purpose is not to engage in such a fact-based conversation.

 

Jo

John,
Who pays for the expert? How is this expert chosen? So the voting on projects would be done once a year? Who’s going to decide what projects get voted on or offered for the members to decide on?
The concerns I posted were not a matter of fact opinions, rather real issues I think could be discussed. I didn’t assume the answers, I think it’s safe to say members may have the same concerns.

 

SCG - Here are your answers which are also part of the FAQ I posted:

Who pays for the expert?
Like all consultants (lawyers, accountants, architects, etc.) RCSC pays for the consultant which is estimated to be a one-time cost of between $40k and $140k (less than 1/10 of 1% of what we will spend on PIF projects over the next ten years.)

How is this expert chosen?
Through the standard RFP process with a draft SOW. Concerned members and members of the LRP have already been combing through other parks and recreation master plans to get names of the consultants that worked on those plans. The plans themselves are representative work.

Who chooses the expert?
My hope would be that the LRP interviews candidates (recorded) and makes a recommendation to the Board and management. It is again my hope that an initial town hall meeting would be held to introduce the consultant to the membership.

Who decides what projects get voted on?
Initially, three options with recommended projects would get voted on. They would be good, better and best and each option would have a list of proposed projects, and the funds for each project required. The proposed projects would need to include a business case (not just a two-word description) with it, so members know what the project entails. The members would be able to kick the tires and if a project in one of the options seems out of whack (a separate air-conditioned building for an indoor dog training facility) they could raise it for a vote if a membership quorum is present. If voted down, funds become available for another project to be determined in the future.
Annually thereafter, only significant changes to the master plan are brought up for vote at the annual meeting. What is a significant change you ask? I (one man's opinion) would leave this to the Board to determine but would expect a change from one level (e.g. Good) to another level (Best) would be a significant change as would an increase in estimated cost of some board determined amount be considered a significant change. While this is really getting into the weeds I could see where a 2/3 vote of the members at a meeting in which a quorum is present would be required to change the master plan. At that meeting we would also receive an update on project progress (including hiccups) and a report out from the consultant on new trends to watch. My hope is this would make the annual membership meeting meaningful.

I hope this helps you understand but doubt it soothes your fears enough to change your vote. And that is OK - Thanks for asking.

John

 

Thank you for the updated information John. Much appreciated.

 

How can a Project Manager needed for any large ticket items be a one time cost?
Do current needs such as center renovation get included in the projected needs?
How can a “contract” special projects manager be part time yet be able to do due diligence on the needs associated with community projects? Such as costs, maintenance, budget impact?
I am truly trying to comprehend the scope of work that goes with a part time project manager that would present items for a vote once a year. I know the LRP has input but would this new process usurp the function of the LRP and place the scope of work into the hands of the contractor?
Thank you for your input, it’s greatly appreciated.

 

SCG,
Perhaps the concept of a master plan is not well understood. Can you please take a look at Wickenburg's master plan to get a better sense of what is involved? Thanks. The best way I can describe it is the master plan is prepared by an expert in collaboration with all constituent groups and plots a long-term course to achieve Sun City's published Mission, Vision and Values. In my opinion, after the plan is drafted the expert's role is to consult only as needed on changes in trends and direction. Again, in my opinion the plan should be comprehensive and objective. In my motions to amend the bylaws, the members will get the opportunity to vote on the big stuff which I hope would include solid data on good, better and best options; each of which would have different price tags associated with them.
Thanks,

John

 

“Can you please take a look at Wickenburg's master plan to get a better sense of what is involved?” John Fast

Town of Wickenburg’s
➡️ PARKS AND RECREATION MASTER PLAN
https://www.wickenburgaz.gov/1470/Parks-Master-Plan

➡️ PRESS RELEASE
https://www.wickenburgaz.gov/DocumentCenter/View/10704/Master-Park-Plan-Press-Release-

 

Awesome website. Very well explained, however how does this equate to SC RCSC? Unless you live in Trilogy the actual activities in the town of Wickenburg are pay to play. which would be awesome here IMO.

 

Josie, There is already pay to play in Sun City for some activities such as bowling and golf. Clubs also charge fees to participate and may charge for supplies. It is just a question of degree. On another note, I hope you are able to get out and visit lakeview park. It really is beautiful and serene this time of year.

 

Been there many times over the past 40 years. It was always the place to take the kids, then the greats when they came to visit.

That's a great point BTW. Why should members have to pay to bowl when we already pay the annual fee? Most bowlers have their own shoes and balls. Charge the outsiders, not residents. Paying for silver craft supplies I get. Golf I understand due to wear and tear. Not letting people bring their own water, soda or beer is crap.

Just for grins I will look to see which clubs charge what. The Fire Dept. issue could be a game changer for SC. Assessments are up and if our taxes go up enough to equal other areas what will the draw be? 600 homes for sale not including pending/contingent.

I get my dog food from 111th and Alabama and pulled in the lot, couple squads pulled up and kids hauled butt. Will be going to Peoria from now on as there are only 2 stores that sell it near-by. Someone on ND was saying they will not go to Fry's on Grand due to panhandlers. They don't feel safe. I seriously don't think the Board and the few people who post here get what is actually happening in SC, what people are saying.

I feel pretty safe where I live even tho someone got assaulted to the left of me and someone got stabbed to the right of me, thank God I'm stuck in the middle with my dogs.

 

I suspect you're referring to the recent post by Rusty Bradshaw regarding the fire Department and possible additional costs when you call 911?

I still don't understand why the fire Department needs to send out the fire truck when you call 911 instead of just sending the EMT's. Talk about the costs to just fuel the truck! Lord knows I hear the fire trucks and sirens at least 3 times a day!

Can somebody explain to me what purpose does sending the fire department when it just a medical emergency serve?

 

And how much does it cost to live in Trilogy? Certainly more than in Sun City.

 

They have been doing this for years, at least since my parents lived here in 2007.

 

Who is John Frost? ( See first line.)

 

I think it a rule in case it turns into a real emergency. There was a man down the street who fell a lot and called EMT's to be picked up and put back to bed. They were at his home about 3 times a week for quite some time. They don't charge to pick someone up off the floor, only if they take a person to the ED. Then it's a $250.00 co-pay. When my parents were dying they did come and put them in the hospital bed no charge, back in 2004 and 2007. Hospice nurses took it from there.

It may be possible that Sun Health Foundation gave to the fire department before Banner took over in 2008. SHF was quite generous unlike Banner. Just a guess tho.

 

The only reason I mentioned Trilogy is because it's near Wickenburg. John's plan was based off the Wickenburg Plan. IMO Wickenburg parks and Sun City are apples and oranges.

 

I like Wickenburg. Not the same in my opinion. Isn't Wickenburg a city, supported by tax dollars?

 

Yes, but as far as governance it's not the same as SC. We are supposed to be Self Governed; Wickenburg is not, I am sure I am missing something because I don't understand how their parks plan could be a format for SC.