A Thoughtful Reflection On Our Community.

I have lived here for 20 years and feel very comfortable that no one I know would be interested in investing in a 60 year old community. We are in our 70's and 80's most living SSI check to SSI check. The last assessment increase was not well received. Maybe if you could find some younger people and get a few investors and do it on your own with a piece of property it would work, but I just don't see this whole community buying into something like that. A lot of us moved here because it was what we could afford.

 

It's been reported by the people in that neighborhood many times. The guy was arrested, he is back out now and back to work in phase 1. The people who live on that street are scared and tired, but they are not sitting idly by. Just a quick request, please don't call me dear.

When I moved here in 2004 it was still a cute community with shops, trader joes, restaurants etc. the mall on 99th and peoria was still fairly busy. la rhonde center was filled as was the strip mall across the street. changes started happening later. i guess what i am trying to say is if it wasn't what i wanted in 2004 i would not have stayed, so i'm having a little trouble understanding why someone would purchase with the intent of changing the whole town especially expecting others to pay for what you want?

2 presents left to wrap. happy holidays.

 

Josie, I am not or would not expect members to pay. I think you don't understand what I think we need fully. I feel in many ways the lack of business growth is hurting us to grow and prosper on many levels which includes the increasing poverty, vagrants and so forth.
Many communities everywhere is seeing the same problem. I only want to not see us stagnant to the point of no return.. I said earlier, all viewpoints should be heard. I write on this blog, because I sincerely care about quality of life and sharing with the same hopes that we can achieve some improvement for the community. We all do the best we can each day with what we are given, what else can we truly do. I would simply like us to do better. Peace.

 

Which is it? "
Josie, If we added a business relations, commercial attorney, Yes we would probably pay on a case to case basis, I would imagine, but it would be worth it. Just my opinion of course. Cheers!
Eileen McCarty, Today at 7:40 PM

It's not a lack of business growth Eileen, it's business closing down. picking up and moving to SCW. Starbucks moved from Boswell and Bell to Del Webb and Bell by Safeway. All the other stores are the same. I have not heard any more news about the Safeway/Albertson's situation, so we don't know what will happen to that Safeway yet. The rest of our little strip malls are MOB's now

If you can accomplish this without all members having to contribute it will be amazing. So many can't and others won't. But there is nothing wrong with a positive attitude!

 

I t makes sense to create an advocacy group that will benefit the members as a whole. It will take an experienced real estate professional who is familiar with commercial property management and development. This same person should also have experience and knowledge as to create an economic development team to support the community in its current endeavors. Lastly, it would be ideal if this same person had contacts and connections across the board to effectively create the needed blueprint for the future as well as be able to see it through fruition. How this office would be structured and funded is another question. Ideally it would be an outreach program that takes the entire picture and provides clarity on how the direction this community needs. It would be most effective if it operated independently from the board, yet could have input into how the community moves forward. Almost like an oversight committee for the continued development and progress in Sun City

 

One of the true tragedies was the decision to end the legal affairs committee (circa 2007). They had been started in the 80's and their function as retired attorneys and judges, was to act as a sounding board for any issues that arose regarding the RCSC. They reviewed document language changes, potential impact of changing state and federal statutes and issues arising within the community that bordered legal matters.

They were not our attorneys, like every committee, they could only make recommendations. In retrospect, they were the one committee the board used and listened to from a governance perspective. They were also the first committee the recently hired general manager got rid of. The argument was they many of them weren't licensed in the state of Arizona so they couldn't practice law. Foolishness, because in fact they weren't acting as lawyers, but advisors.

The questions raised here, about what we can and can't do from as a for-profit standpoint would have been referred to them. Most of the rewriting of the bylaws done since 2006 would never have happened. Heck, some of the duties allocated to the general manager would not have been allowed. They were the gatekeepers for the membership maintaining their rights under our documents.

Nope, we aren't going back there, but even our back and forth discussions on TOSC reveal how little most of us know (including me). I would guess non profit organizations aren't allowed to set up a company to do for profit business. That said, we allow ten pin bowlers to use our bowling centers; we let non resident golfers play on our courses; we rent out our facilities to other than members. So, where is the line?

And let's put to rest the notion no one wants to invest in Sun City. Nonsense. It started with the K-Hov homes behind the cemetery and sold out quickly. Go check the new Royal Oak development, Inspirata Point. A massive expenditure. How about the proposed condo development at the Union Hills Country Club? The artists renderings are fascinating. The next 5 years will prove to be challenging for the 3 private country clubs. The 2025 5th water management plan will leave them in a lurch if the state presses forward. Watch what happens to them.

What you aren't seeing is a return to those good old days of small stores and local restaurants. That's not just here in Sun City. Those days are gone, and while at least on poster wants you to believe it's just in Sun City, that's folly. Newer bigger and glitzier shopping centers are leaving all of the tired old centers emptied out and searching for options. The tragedy is, as some have alluded to, shopping centers and strip malls appear to benefit from tax advantages by leaving them empty. Maybe it's time to rewrite those tax laws to stimulate selling those dilapidated old buildings off.

While some have scoffed at my remarks regarding the societal changes regarding online transactions, it is a simple truth and easily verifiable. From on line banking, to online clothing purchases, to online grocery delivery to restaurants increasing home delivery rather than diners eating in, our lives have changed. I get accused of clinging to the past, a comment i laugh at given i'm not the one longing to go buy a suit at the local men's clothier who used to be by the Safeway.

These trends regarding online will only intensify with Generation X and Generation Y. Most of us are smart enough to know that. It's why the evolution for Sun City will at some point in time mean those large commercial tracts of land be converted to high rise living, especially if it is affordable. And, this is where the RCSC will play a major role: Our rec centers and golf courses have to be updated and maintained in a way that makes them worth contractors and investors investing in. Our technology has to be enhanced 10 fold from where it currently is. They are at least on the right path for that.

We can all do our parts by maintaining our properties. They don't need major remodels like some of us have done, we just need keep them looking good. As i drive around the community, i see neatly kept homes, clean streets and easily a community i would want to buy into. There are those wanting the glitz and the glamour and who will be willing to pay for it. If you listen to the noise how expensive Sun City is, obviously you haven't looked elsewhere at comparable communities and related costs.

Now, in 2025, we need begin to repair that sense of community Sun City was built on and around.

In My Humble Opinion.

 

Investing in a private Country Club:
paying to join a private country club does not make you an owner:

• Corporate-owned clubs
  Most country clubs are corporate-owned, and members pay fees and dues but do not own the club. The general manager runs the club, and members do not have voting rights or a board to oversee operations.
• Non-equity memberships
  Non-equity members do not have ownership responsibilities or decision-making power. They pay fees to enjoy the club's amenities, but the club's owners keep any appreciation in membership value.
• Equity clubs
  In equity clubs, the membership owns and operates the club. Members have a voice in how the club operates, and committees decide how to spend money. Equity clubs may return some portion of a member's initiation fee when they leave.

Private clubs are typically invitation-only or have a membership quota. They offer a variety of recreational sports and facilities for dining and entertaining.

People bought homes behind the cemetery. How is that different from any other part of SC?

Condo's at Union Hills - Will people who buy own more than the condo itself?

When people buy into Royal Oaks they are buying peace of mind until the end of their life. They are not investing in Royal Oaks, they do not own a part of Royal oaks. They are buying care for themselves no matter what life stage they are in, from independent living thru hospice care.

Why is the Chase parking lot usually full? Why is Arrowhead Mall still being used? Kierland Commons is a very popular place. The suit thing doesn't make any sense but you probably brought it up for shock effect. When you wear shorts and t shirts and a ball cap every day there is no need for a suit store. With the exception of a few restaurants in Phoenix most places are resort casual in the East Valley. Most places are ball game casual in the West Valley. Being that I like a few nice things to wear I go shopping. Ordering online usually results in garbage made by sweat shops in China or they don't fit and you have to go thru the return hassle.

Re online grocery delivery it's fine for paper goods and pantry items. When I purchase chicken, beef, any meat and fruit and veggies I want to pick them out myself. I am not going to play Russian Roulette with a steak at the cost of them today. Someone who works at a local grocery store told me the "shoppers" generally pick items closest to expiration date for "home delivery".

It won't happen posting here.

 

About Sun City West
Sun City West is a 16,900-home community 2.5 miles west of the original Sun City Arizona. Del Webb constructed this community of attached and single-family homes between 1978 and 1997. Residents have access to the well-appointed recreation centers of Sun City West and activities that cater to homeowners wanting to stay physically and socially active. The community was designed to intertwine with a variety of retail stores and shopping centers. Most residents find that all of their shopping needs can be accomplished with a short trip down the golf-cart-legal streets.

Homebuyers will find resort-style amenities, a low-maintenance lifestyle, and Arizona homes for sale in Sun City West.

When in search of entertainment or dining options, homeowners can travel down the Sun City West's commercial core, which is home to multiple restaurants, shops, and bars.

We absolutely love living in Sun City Grand!
People are so friendly and they have so many things to do. 3 resort pools with one inside. Tons of Bocce, Tennis, Lawn bowling & Pickle ball courts. Many clubs to join in on the fun. A Main Street with Shops, ice cream & coffee shop and full service restaurant. We have been here a short time and have met many friends already. We love that we can take our golf cart on the golf course outside our door and play a round of golf or to many near bye restaurants, supermarkets and business!
It’s like a Disney Land Resort for adults!

 

As I reflect on my attitude of gratitude, I am truly thankful for those that engage in their community in a positive way and do not expect a quid pro quo or have an "ax to grind". I see them every time I visit a facility. There are still those that make the wheels go round. They are a rare breed and getting rarer by the day. I try to be one of them when I am able because they are the ones who make Sun City, the City of Volunteers. I admire and respect that quality of giving and am scratching my head on how I can help make that quality infectious.
I want to thank Bill P for persistently sharing his views on how Sun City might be able to again become a we community in a me world. It is not easy but nothing worthwhile ever is (in my opinion). As Bill P said it starts with taking a fearless inventory. It also requires that we (Members, Management and the Board) admit our shortcomings in a safe environment. We must, in my opinion, be able to engage in a constructive dialogue without pointing fingers. Then and only then will we be able to set in motion a movement that will drive our future. Until this happens, we will, in my opinion, "be stuck in the mud". I believe the first step is admitting that our community has become unmanageable, and we need help. That is why I and others are advocating for a professionally developed master plan to guide our future.

Merry Christmas,

John

 

John if you are expecting me to let things go that are not true that will not happen. How does spreading false information bring a community together? Communities come together through truth and discussion. Several things said were untrue, if you think I am wrong with my responses tell me why, give me examples of why, but don't sneak in the back door with "pointing fingers"

 

Josie, I wasn't even thinking of you when I made that observation. It was a generalization regarding how society is always searching for someone to blame.

Merry Christmas,

John

 

Merry Christmas and Peace on earth and this blog!

 

Sorry, it's just what I have come to expect. Hopefully now that we will have moderators the foul language and temperture will subside here and we can get more people to join.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

 

Josie,
Your comments are neither positive or constructive. Others have tried to post ideas and suggestions to help make this chat board more inclusive with ideas seeking input from the audience for a better future for Sun City. There are many people who see a better future for us as a whole. Your contributions do not offer any positive feedback or support for a better future. I, for one, like the ideas being shared here for a bright new generation to bring about change that’s sorely needed. As I look back at the past posts by this person, they are vile and intrusive.
To those posting ideas and suggestions for a better future for our community, I thank you for your input. It’s going to be those that seek ideas for betterment of Sun City that are going to help make this place shine.
I look forward to hear more of your thoughts and ideas going forward from those offering useful advice. Your thoughts and suggestions are most appreciated by this reader

 

Well Merry Christmas to you as well. The things said in this thread were just not true and I pointed them out. Please, explain where I was wrong in my responses to Bill. If you want to go the vile and hateful route I have pages upon pages going back years saved on an external hard drive from this blog. I have been verbally assaulted, especially by Dave and Bill going back a year (which is when I joined btw). I can show you the dysfunctional behavior here from long before I joined. One person I know from Nextdoor actually chose to buy in SCW due to reading this blog. That was in 2022. I had never heard of TOSC then.

This blog has chased more people away over the years and always winds up with the same 10 or so people saying the same thing over and over. That is not positive or conducive to growth of the community. Newcomers are harassed especially around election time if they happen to be conservative. That goes back to the 2016 election on here. I found a post from 2013 where the same people today who want a cyber cafe were talking about it then, 11 years ago. Tell me how that is growth. And while you are at it tell me how this is ok:

La comedia et fin
Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Jul 16, 2024

Good luck proving that one Dave. Specific words, plus all of your self admitted knowledge of all things, especially historical.
"La comedia et fin"
Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Today at 9:43 AM

La commedia è finita!

Josie P, Jul 16, 2024

Eileen's Idea of having members contribute to land purchase at 99th and Union Hills to spruce it up with shops will cause at the very least a mob at the board meeting to rival the library debacle. With 17% rental property and 10% of people here living below poverty level I sure don't see that happening.

What should happen is this blog being a place for all members to exchange ideas, however everyone I asked to join said no. They tried it years ago. I have been on other TOSC sites and they are actual informational, help, and professional looking sites. Someone, I don't know who, in 2013 thought this would be a good idea for the individual Sun Cities. It was for some. Hopefully it will be for this one too now that the owners are monitoring it.

Joy to the World!

 

Thanks John for the kind words and far more importantly the recognition that Sun City's future is directly connected to those of us who live here, work here and love being a part of such a unique community. We were initially dubbed "the great social experiment," we still are to this day growing and evolving. As we have talked about often self-governance is never easy.

Here's the one thing we should have come to understand by now; we can't ever come together when hatred is at the core of our existence. It simply doesn't work, never has, never will. From the first day residents started moving in the end of April, 1960, there has been disagreements over direction, disputes and discussions that were heated but the ultimate end has always been this: What is best for Sun City?

The other thing we know from our history is there has been a long line of characters who have often been in the spotlight. Some spent the entirety of their retirement years trying to make a difference. They didn't do it for personal gratification, sometimes they did it because they thought they were right and it was the only way. For any of us who have spent a lifetime working in challenging environments, we've come to understand the best outcomes aren't when everyone agrees, but when diverse and varied opinions are sought, weighed and valued. The best of the best has happened when we included the membership.

All of which is why our history matters. Ultimately, none of those "characters" were all that important. It was always an end game about building that sense of community. John Meeker might have been the one person who best understood what Sun City was, why it was so successful and what it would take to survive going forward. Even he had his doubts, but when he walked away, he handed us the keys and knew he had given us the tools to carry on.

2025 will be fascinating to watch unfold. The board has to be shell shocked over some of the crazy choices made by the general manager in 2024 (i know i would be). On a positive note, the 2023 budget and finance committee rebuild and that "fearless and moral inventory" they took has put us on the right path. The improvements made at the centers, the increased activities and the slightly better efforts at communication all need to continue.

Life, as most of us know and understand it, is simply choices. Right ones? Wrong ones? Good ones? Bad ones? Over our history we've weathered them all. We've stood the test of time and we still have the most amenities at the least cost. We still are one of those affordable communities where men and women of average means can retire to or continue to work and feel good about their choice to move here.

Don't ever let anyone tell you how you should feel about making Sun City your home...not me...not anyone else posting here. I know from my perspective i have loved this community for all it has offered me, my family and countless others. It was simply one of the best choices Lori and i have ever made.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. Life is way too short waste a moment of it being angry. Joy, peace and love to all.

 

Bill,
The title of this thread is “A Thoughtful Reflection On Our Community”. There are so many people who offered excellent advice and and ideas. Offered a sense of community ideas with a positive intent to make Sun City a more productive place to call home.
When different people offer such great commentary about choices that can be made, different directions to seek, only to be verbally assaulted? Absolutely not called for. This single person constantly refers to the moderator to help clean up the site of those posting what SHE considers fallible posts, should indeed be the one removed. To post the vitriol she does does not deserve to be part of a community conversation.
I believe the old adage that goes something like “If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say it.”

 

I have a little different take Carole and it is tenet i have tried to live by as i have aged: One cannot hate their way to happiness. That said, to each their own. We all need to walk in our own shoes.

For me, i'm with John every time: Gratitude is an attitude. I choose to embrace it.

 

There is a lovely 55+ community in Casa Grande called Mission Royale. It’s a newer community, and depending upon which neighborhood you select, the monthly HOA fee is $110 to $180.
But the fee includes biking, hiking and a host of other activities beyond those offered here.
Amazingly you can still buy homes for under $300k that have a 2 car garage and a nice block wall fence around the block around the back yard. There is also a very large water park in the center of the community available to all who are homeowners.
Why do this type of comparison? Because one can have a beautiful community that all can be proud of and want to be a part of and it’s less than 60 miles away. Only one golf course to support, lots of green space and should the grandkids and great-grandkids want to come visit, there are family friendly parks to be involved with. Yes, there are plenty of 70 and 80 year old people living there. No, they are not self governing which at this point could make a new community attractive. Always lots of talk about Sun City and Sun City West. There are far more attractive places to consider that may be the nirvana someone is seeking.
I offered this comparison as a way to illustrate that our dream community can be found within our white walls if we are willing to invest the time and energy it would take to make us the best again. Does being the cheapest make us the best? I say not. To have the community we want, we need to build it. With effective leadership that sees everything needing attention and planning to make it happen. I emphasize need, not want. There are far too many needs to be addressed that tearing down a center to make room for a theater is a senseless endeavor. The theater was originally slated for the SW parking area at Bell. Once again a choice to examine.

 

You should really practice what you preach.

As I sit here, in my recliner, with 17 stitches in my ankle and in dire pain, I am so grateful to hear your words of encouragement.
I will reiterate my statement there is help for those who seek it. People who expect something for nothing, such as yourself Josie, get exactly what they need, nothing. You seem to want it all your way, and on a silver platter. Life doesn’t serve it that way and for those that are struggling can get services they need. It’s a phone call away but the recipient has got to be a willing participant. Expecting something for nothing seems to be your mantra and do hope it works out for you. DO NOT reply to me anymore, I have blocked you and will not be seeing your drivel again.

SunCityGal, Thursday at 7:37 PM