Understanding Sun City...

My apologies to those trying to follow along while a poster who hates me personally continues the tirades. It is what it is and exactly why anyone who thinks hatred and personal resentments are a recipe for a better way of life are always riddled with disaster and fraught with unhappiness. The easiest way (for me) is to block/ignore her comments.

With that out of the way let's look at where we are as a community. The mistake, as noted above, is we often see/think about Sun City only through the lens of the RCSC. I've tagged it "small picture" Sun City. My perspective has mostly focused on "big picture" Sun City. We are the sum total of our parts; always have been, always will be. A decision was made years back for the RCSC to internalize small picture and focus only on that smaller piece of the puzzle. I thought it was a mistake when they did it, i still think it was a bad choice.

We know historically, since the day we opened, those choices have been made. We can argue whether they were good or bad, but it doesn't really matter. We know historically we have survived in spite of the decisions boards/members made. It was as i wrote earlier; as a community and as organizations we have self-corrected and come out the other side, often better for the missteps.

Which is why history matters. We've lived and worked through some really bad choices (and lots of really good ones). As a community we are resilient and flexible. We survive in spite of whether we turned left or right. That is how self-governance works. That's why Sun City, as the first age restricted community of its kind, is so uniquely different from most of the others (Sun City West is the closest, but even they have subtle differences).

Our simple truth is this: Sun City is still one of the best options for retirees of modest incomes or those still working of average means to select as their destination of choice. Whether in retirement or still on the job, our community has something for everyone and at affordable costs. Pretending we are the only ones affected by the increasing cost of living or the downsizing of businesses due to changing shopping patterns is folly.

The white walls surrounding us, cannot keep the challenges of society's changes from reaching us. They do however keep us living in the bubble of serenity that can be found when one lives a life where they are looking for happiness, not resentments. Enjoy the day, Sun City still offers us a stunning way of life at a truly affordable cost.

 

More lies. I do not hate you. I know you are a liar because you keep saying that with zero proof. Just like you say I hate SC. The interesting thing about liars, especially when they put everything in writing, is it can be proven. According to you we never met so the only way I could have said hate was in writing. As Dave would say you also practice psychiatry without a license: anyone who thinks hatred and personal resentments are a recipe for a better way of life are always riddled with disaster and fraught with unhappiness.

The truth is I think you are a narcissist. a controlling person and pompous. You think the people of SC are stupid: The real tragedy here is so many fail to even begin to grasp that concept of building a sense of community. IMO you just say the same thing over and over which implies you think no one has the ability to retain information. As long as you keep doing what you do there will never be new members here. One left recently asking me 'who is that Pearson guy'? You think people showing up in numbers only when they are unhappy is a good thing. It's not bill. a good thing would be if they cared enough to show at all board meetings, you know, like in the good old days.

 

Josie, as usual you have taken what I said out of context. I said that they were obtuse as to financial statements, like you and your fake MBA. I don’t m8 d being quoted as long as I am quoted correctly. As a Secretary you should know that.

 

You assume. "while I found your explanations spot on and easily understandable, you must know that a good percentage of our population is obtuse at best and wouldn’t 7nderstand non-profits if Big Bird came down and explained it."

And the point of your statement was meant to insult people. It's not about the content as much as it is your intention and attitude.

This statement got a lot of commentary on ND.

 

Interesting meeting today and safe to say the general manager took a licking but he is still ticking. I'm not sure how many more times he can put the board in jeopardy with poorly thought out and poorly executed plans. Its simply not how Sun City should function.

I did take the liberty of addressing the members and the board today. A former board member, after talking about all of the mistake made this year, asked aloud if the members had "voters remorse?" I found it odd, so i reminded everyone that same board member was seated on the stage 3 years and 4 months ago when we had armed deputies in the crowd to help protect them as they raced out the back door following a two minute board meeting.

Progress rather than perfection eh?

Which brings me to the good news regarding these past three plus years. Members have been turning out in large numbers. While some bemoan the angst that has come from these actions, i see the "activism" as both educational and stimulating. I can't tell you how many times the general manager and the board made rash decisions and almost irrespective of what they were doing, we seldom saw more than 20 members in attendance. I often reported the staff and board well outnumbered the members in attendance at the monthly meetings.

The heightened interest is a really good thing.

It shows us there is a path forward and it should be apparent to anyone paying attention what that is. We need better communication, more effective technology and low and behold, one of the current candidates even suggested comprehensive training for board members. Good God, what a great idea. We've only floated that boat about a hundred times over the years.

Time to quit talking about it and start formulating a plan to set board members up to help them be successful. It's not rocket science, it's just common sense.

By the way, if you haven't voted for the RCSC board members yet, you can do so online, OR, you can stop by the Lakeview Social Halls from 8 am till 4 pm on Tuesday Dec 10. You will need your RCSC picture ID to cast your ballot. It all starts there gang.

 

Yeah, and it seems that the criticism is getting louder and more often!

He also seems to be less inclined to respond and/or defend himself on several occasions! Is he reading the writing on the wall? Darla laid into him pretty harsh, but she wasn't the only one expressing their dissatisfaction with his decisions! Most of which have been reversed!

As far as the new Board goes,... we'll know tomorrow shortly after 4 P.M.

And I'll make no bones about it, I'm hoping that Rick Gray wins a seat on the Board and I hope he gets elected to serve as Board President.

Let's be real, he's a guy who, while serving his time in the Arizona State legislature, has had to learn how to get along with every faction. At one point he served as whip so he knows how to bring people together and gather votes. He understands that personal agendas don't get things done, and he also understands who he works for!

2025 will surely be an interesting turn of events. Lots of expensive decisions need to be made, while too many things are still up in the air.

These Boards have been "All hat, no cattle." You know what they say, "Fish or cut bait." "Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of the way."

Time for some real leadership. If it needs to come from hiring an outside source, so be it. But we can't keep changing out at least 1/3rd of the Board every year and not provide some sort of training. We obviously can't rely on in-house training because whatever they have been telling the new Directors hasn't seemed to make a bit of difference year after year!

Just my opinion!

 

OK, here's the data from the minutes for 2022, 2023, 2024. Unfortunately, special session link not working and I don't feel like trying to figure it out. I guess with a population of 27,000 or so "large numbers" could mean different things to different people. I glanced at 2021 and there were anywhere between 20 and 110 members in attendance for all meetings. Plus 2022 was a mess. Duplicates, dates.


---2024---2023---2022

1---53-----78------320
2---77-----115-----145
3---72-----135-----91
4---68-----54------58
5---43-----39------35
6---26-----45------35
9---n/a----242----102
10---------67------58
11---------61------83
12---------70------102

 

It is, and I don't think that's a good thing. Pissing off residents is not a good idea ever. This has happened too many times this year. If it keeps up, we will all see what real apathy looks like. Unhappy residents are not good for potential buyers.

 

I've known Rick Gray for a number of years and he will be a much welcomed addition to the board. His background in both state politics and on the SCHOA board might make him the most experienced and best qualified candidate in a very long time. He is also level headed and willing to engage openly and his bias should be limited to doing the right things for the members who elect him.

It's always odd to write that because the argument/push back i get comes from those who quote the Articles of Incorporation who tell me board members are elected to serve the best interests of the organization, not the membership. It's a circular argument, because the very purpose and existence of the RCSC is to serve the membership (also part of the Articles).

Every election matters, so if you haven't voted yet, you can do so on line or by stopping by the Lakeview social halls from 8 am till 4 pm today (Tuesday, Dec 10). It's the first step in the never-ending journey for self-governance. We have a long way to go, but the path forward is clear to anyone paying attention. The challenge is to get more folks to involved. BTW, if you plan to vote in person, bring your RCSC picture ID.

 

That seems to be the mindset the RCSC drills into their heads during their indoctrination, but a fiduciary responsibility doesn't just pertain to finances:

"A fiduciary duty is the legal responsibility to act solely in the best interest of another party."

And the Membership IS that other party!

 

Well said Tom and one of the reasons for the challenges board members face is understanding/knowing the differences between for profit companies and non profit organizations. So many have grown up in a work environment that was driven by the "bottom line." It is a whole different ball game when it comes to their role as board members.

One of the reasons i have preached our history over the years is because we have evolved. The first 20 years, we know DEVCO subsidized so much of what was going on across the community. Even the notion the company "gave us" the amenities is misunderstood. The costs of building both the rec centers and the golf courses was added to each of the properties around their location. We paid for what they gave us.

Their goal was to divest themselves from ownership as quickly as possible. They never planned on being in the business of running the community, their goal was to build homes and sell them as quickly as possible. The centers, for the most part was an easy "sell," while the golf courses were much more difficult. Even back when the deal was finally done in 1977, several of the board members saw owning golf courses had the potential to become a "money pit." How right they were, but owning them was far better than letting DEVCO sell them off to investors.

The first really ugly internal battle happened in the early 80's. DEVCO was no longer involved and the infighting began. Stay frugal or start investing in the ownership that included the maintenance and upgrading what we had been "given" to us. Sound familiar? It should, because every age restricted community that has amenities is facing the same problems we are.

The newer ones aren't as bad, but over time, they too will be faced with expensive updating and repairs. Many of them were smart enough to follow Sun City's lead and began collecting impact fees at the point of sale. It's really the only way to do it without passing on massive costs to existing owners. Which is just another way of saying, we've done a lot of things right.

Now, our challenges are far different. The greatest generation buyers were happy with what was here. Boomers have become more fixated on wanting what they want. All of which should scream to us; figure out quickly what Generation X will be looking for, before we start to create a site plan for the Lakeview remodel. That alone will be daunting.

That too should tell us the better we train new board members, the better they will be to perform their duties. It would be great to see/hear or read the incoming board members will get a crash course in the expectations and how best to perform the role they fill. It's a high bar, given we have done very little in the past 20 years, and certainly not one we can afford to ignore.

Let's see what happens in today's election and hopefully we can begin to move in the right direction. This year has been difficult.

 

Why?

 

No it wasn’t to insult people but rather to state that a large percentage of the population knows nothing of non profits and people I have spoken with still seem confused after a simple explanation. Of course you must be a financial wizard vis osmosis with an MBA in the house and all.
As for the alleged uprising on ND, not on the site whatever it is and I expect blowback.
A good case in point on financial matters is from yesterday. A woman spoke about the good old lack of transparency trope regarding assessments which she believed were done behind closed doors. If she went to Budget $0& Finance meetings, which are on the weekly schedule e mail and I believe in the Monday Independent, she would have witnessed an in depth discussion of revenue and expenses which are the basis for the amount of assessments. Hardly anybody ver attends as guests, which are always welcome, but rather whine and complain about something which has no basis in fact.

Glad to see that kept your promise from at least a month ago that you were done with me.

 

Can't help it. You are just so entertaining!

 

Maybe it's because the BOD and Committee members past and present have an "attitude". Maybe the name calling on social media sites is pushing people away. Why do most past BOD/Committee members think they know better than everyone else? If they did we would not be where we are not.

There is no place for the members to exchange ideas without "big brother". They are stifled, harassed, not listened to unless we come out in droves to be heard. When they see comments like this what do you expect?

I could give two shits whether people like or dislike me.
I just shared an email with some close friends. I revealed to them, i have become jaundiced to anything they say or write. They simply don't care what a document says.
Year after year after year, no one was ever held accountable.
When i do things, get involved with stuff or even when i write, i don't really care if the things i am doing or saying is well received or if people like me. It's just never been a priority in my life. I don't have many friends, try and get along with people, but if we don't, that's okay.

Maybe some should take a step back and let others have a say, but then again social media is not a thing anymore. Facebook is used primarily between family and friends, Nextdoor is about coyote sighting posts, as well as complaining about people whose dogs happen to sneak out, and the new ND is so full of ads it's not worth it. If you look at TOSC only a handful have stayed the course. If you do a deep dive most come and go quickly.

 

In another post, I suggested formal training be designed and made mandatory for all new board members to attend. It would be ideal to have a course designed by a fellow board member with input, design expertise and training experience to help accomplish specific goals and materials to be delivered. This course would not be extremely long, but definitely focused on the fundamentals of being a director, roles and responsibilities of being a director and the functions of the moving parts of the RCSC. If one knows that is expected and how one fits into the role then one can understand what the role entails and how to lead in the role you are working in.
Just a thought, as putting together this kind of a course is not rocket science but would be most valuable to those involved.

 

A few months ago somebody mentioned SCW Torch Acadamy, but never heard anything else. Maybe we need a person to accept all ideas submitted here so they get out to more than 10 people. Maybe reach out to SCW and find out about Torch. Find out if it might work here. One thing I guarantee is that if ideas sit on TOSC nothing will happen. Just like the suggestion by Tom M. about having a Chair of each committee that reports to the board. The BOD are probably exhausted. They wanted to retire as well Not going to happen if they are sitting on all committee meeting ans well as the board.

TORCH-Brochure-5_24_24.pdf

0_2_FYI.pdf

 

I did significant research into duplicating the TORCH program for Sun City several years ago. The biggest hurdle is the community differences. Sun City doesn’t have any open door policies for the leadership of this community. SCW, being under Title 33 for its ruling documents, has a legal obligation to adhere to how the structure of their board operates. The TORCH program honors open meetings at all times, has strict guidelines for how the community will conduct business with being inclusive of the members, and meeting rules that apply at all times.
Sun City is Title 10, which allows for self governance but does not have the structure or authority laid out Title 33. Torch program biggest achievement is open access to the governing body of SCW. The program involves intensive training for the members to learn of the inner workings of the organization.
Sun City has no open door policy to which the members have access.,Any member wanting access to information needs to fill out a form and request access to different resources. The request for access is granted or denied by the GM. Sun City is proud of its history of being independent, but it would be most beneficial to the community if we were inclusive and not so closed door to its members.

 

Sun City, being the first of its kind community, we should also have a unique member education program geared towards those wanting to and learn more about the history of Sun City, how it’s governed, and how members can shape their community today and for the future. It could be a three part series, history of Sun City, the Board and its functions and how members are Sun City. Make it geared for adult learning, keep it informative and relevant as well as accessible to residents who want to participate in how this community is their home. It would need to offer tours of a facility from a behind the scenes perspective, feature the committee process as well as active discussion and participation of the learners with those presenting.
Yes, it would be remiss if I didn’t say that I was a course developer and stand and deliver trainer for a number of years. My interest is from a community needs position, not a personal gain interest.
Thank you for listening.

 

Thanks SCG, solid comments and this SCW history is worth a quick refresh. I had sent a reply to a group of us emailing back and forth and rather than typing it anew, i am cutting and pasting portions of it:
"For those who aren't familiar with SCW history, here's a quick down and dirty. In the late 90's a group was formed called SCWOOG (i think the acronym was short for Sun City West organization for open governance). You can still find articles online (i think). It got nasty, but unlike here in Sun City they sat down with those leading the fight and agreed the best outcome was to follow Title 33.

Title 33 is easier for people to sue because it has fixed obligations while Title 10 allows organizations more freedom to do what they want (as long as they follow their documents).

Anyway, SCW came out of the fight for the better. Some years after the transition the board/management decided they needed better training for potential community leaders. They started the TORCH program, a 7 week scheduled class of how the community works and what potential leaders need to know. Their goal is two sessions per year where they graduate 90-100 members per year. It's been running for 16 or 17 years. That's well over a 1000 members.

In 2023 every one of their 9 board members had gone through TORCH. Plus across the community, organizations and clubs were filled with graduates. It was a structure built to succeed and thrive off of well trained people who weren't just shoved into a position and hoped they did good. As Ben said to me over coffee one day, Title 33 is no big deal as long as you follow it. He was a county commissioner in WI for 22 years and everything they did was an open book.

There's also a significant difference in SCW from SC. For years the RCSW paid PORA (their version of SCHOA) to send first letters for CC&R violations. They had no real governing authority, as unlike Sun City, their CC&R's were included in the RCSCW documents. Adjudication of violations ultimately went back to the SCW board, which included taking away privileges of membership if CC&R complaints weren't addressed. As you all know SCHOA is free-standing and our only ability is to take owners to court (a very expensive proposition). Most other age-restricted communities have adopted the SCW version with a single entity governance structure. It's quicker, cleaner and far easier to administrate.

There is nothing to prevent the RCSC from starting a program like TORCH. The biggest reason not to is more about control (in my opinion), as management would find themselves in a wholly different position if the board members were trained and then actually held the general manager accountable. They used to (before 2006) but with the new gm hired in 06, over the years they gave her almost complete autonomy to govern as she saw fit.

These are not new comments from me and to be clear, i blame all of us who were board members who let it happen. Much like the current GM, she felt she can do a better job for the membership without the board sticking their nose into his/her business. That's simply not how we were built, and more importantly not why we were so successful.

While it's easy to look at the SCW structure as being better, they too have shared in the pain of late. Recall petitions, GM released and spiking prices are part and parcel of our unique system of self-governance. As we talk often, there's nothing easy about running your community. What i can say without question, with no training makes it even that much more difficult.