Group Think...

This is truly a sad situation and one the Board brought upon themselves. I read and reread the board's rebuttal to the membership concerns, and it smacked of elitism again. The lowly uneducated members (insert peasants) just need more information to understand how the enlightened Board came to such a wonderful decision. The phrase "Let them eat cake" comes to mind.

So here is what I predict will happen at the Thursday board meeting. I hope it doesn't happen this way, but the chances are growing slim. Director Collins will read the motion. Many members will speak, and they will be labeled special interest groups whose concerns have already been addressed in the Board's (managements?) rebuttal. Director Collins will apologetically say the Board had agreed to follow the architect's decision (which was undoubtedly heavily influenced by certain members of the Board). Many directors will offer some political doublespeak about how they wish they could accommodate everyone but blah blah ba blah. Perhaps the script will provide for some board member to make a motion to defer the decision but that will be defeated.
A vote will be taken and that will give the green light to spend several million dollars on architects in 2025... but construction won't begin until 2026. Deja Vu all over again.

I and a few others will be respectfully protesting outside the venue before the meeting. It is not our goal to show force in numbers or to be loud and obnoxious. A petition for recall of each Board member will be available outside the entrance way.

I really enjoy Sun City but never in a million years did I think I would be trying to protect a community from its leaders.

Best regards and God Bless,

John Fast

 

I made one appearance at a World Futurists' Society gathering; i was brutal. I quickly came to understand what they were doing was "forecasting" not predicting. I also realized i was well beyond my element. My greatest shortcoming was my failure to understand historically what had been the reality for organized labor for more than 100 years. History matters/mattered. I failed to take it into consideration.

With that out of the way, i have an opinion on what Thursday will bring, but it is little more than that; my opinion. We know historically there has only been one time in Sun City's history a board member was actually voted out of office. There were another recall vote for president and vice-president but they won the recall vote and stayed in office (summer of 1981 or 82).

I posted the other day Art William's was voted out of office in the 90's. He (was president) and his vice-president led the charge to replace the artificial lawn bowling green at Sundial rec center with a two story RCSC office building. When the petition began circulating, the VP withdrew his position and was against the idea. Art was an interesting character who was hard-headed and committed to his beliefs. He refused to alter his opinion on the building and when he was booted, he actually wore the fact he was the only one ever kicked off the board by the membership as a badge of courage.

I retell the story only from this point of view. Almost no one who volunteers to serve in an often thankless position wants to be disliked by the membership. It's just human nature for people wanting to be liked. The board has had an ugly summer. The library outrage wasn't of their making, but as the board, they own the actions and outcomes by the management team. They have one RCSC employee they have any say over; the general manager.

Ultimately, the end result of how they or management does is on them. I have no idea how we got so far afield so quickly. I know what has happened has driven the community to respond in ways the board never expected. Was it group think? Do they truly believe with costs exploding and home sales slowing to a crawl the membership would just applaud a vision of piling on more costs (with a new PAC) and then arguing we can just rebuild what we destroy somewhere else?

As usual, i stray. My thoughts/expectations will be they kill the motion. In conjunction with that, they need release the promised "elements" for Mountain View's remodel. At least then we will know what we are looking at for MV and we can begin to figure out how to proceed in a way that doesn't break the bank...or destroy amenities many of us love.

We'll see very soon eh?

 

Ya think?

It's all just sad now. Loved visiting my folks in the 80's and 90's. Couldn't wait to move here. Moved here in 2004 to take care of folks. Too busy to pay too much attention. Was able to start paying attention around 2008 and watched things deteriorate to the point where homeless are sleeping on golf courses, cars on my street are broken into all the time, there was a stabbing 5 door down from me and read this week's Independent. Squatters living in a home have 3 pitties who have been reported for 17 months to HOA, MCSO and animal control attacked a woman walking her two little dogs. One had to have both eyes removed. A couple stopped to help. the woman had a walker and the man had a walking stick trying to fend the dogs off.

Raise those rates. Build multi-million-dollar buildings we don't need and price us all out of Sun City.

Josie P, Nov 8, 2024

 

And just for giggles this is a post from a person who moved to SCW in August of 2020, so you all can stop blaming me for the discourse on TOSC. No names, I don't dox.

'When I was deciding where to spend the rest of my time I saw several indicators of disgruntled members in the Independent news along with Talk of SunCity. I had a hopeful view of living amongst like minded folks. Eventually I ended up here in SunCityWest among friendly (mostly) folks. There are those unfortunate who are evidently unsatisfied with their Lives and choose to be agitators. And there’s those who choose to live their lives Sequestered in the confines of their residences. Or are in a Witness Protection plan? Live your Life the way you wish for Yourself'

 

Since you are he master of sitting in the cheap seats, how do you know what I do in committee meetings? You don’t as I never saw you (according to sign in sheet) at an Insurance committee meeting probably because you wouldn’t have a clue what we were talking about, just focus on cost then go on a verbal rampage as you have no context. The same goes for Budget & Finance (again according to sign in sheet and guests introducing themselves)and I doubt you sent the alleged MBA to bring the message home, again verbal rampage about you know little about. Basically you are a no information whiner.

When I was on the Board I tried to upgrade our financial statements to show the true finances, think the Cash Carry Forward ( not an accounting term) to the tune of a few million dollars never appearing on the statement, I tried to defeat an unnecessary increase in the PIF ( lost by one vote), resigned near the end of my second term because a Board member was a slezebag who should have been kicked off the Board and banned from ever serving again in any capacity, but was the GM’s pet, so nothing happened. Glad I can never run again. Let’s see you run and bring your vast experience as a Secretary to the Board or are you all talk no action.

 

I don't care what you did, think you did, accomplished you are not good enough to say things about approximately 30,000 people like

while I found your explanations spot on and easily understandable, you must know that a good percentage of our population is obtuse at best and wouldn’t 7nderstand non-profits if Big Bird came down and explained it. They are clamoring for the five year plan and why is it taking so long. You know that this is not like purchasing a five year day planner at Staples and you just fill in the blanks. It covers the deferred maintenance, since we seem to be moving on MV, that project is 2-3 years depending on final drawings and just basic capital expenses. Plus we have to make sure we have the bucks for this.

Then we have the dog club which to me is the like the car club with fur. I spoke with the club president when this first surfaced and learned that while teaching River c how to run in between sticks, the real purpose is for the two legged creatures to hang out and shoot the bull. So what they want is an air conditioned social club house so they can hang out, throw seasonal parties while Ruffy learns to run in circles to catch his/her tail. Just my prediction, if they get this space I guarantee they will come back and ask for more. I feel the same way about a performing arts center, it’s a boondoggle. If we are planning for the next generation, how do we know this is what they want? I’ll answer the question, we think we know, but we don’t know and the biggest problem is we have not realized we don’t know.

It doesn't work, and if you think this can be justified there is something horribly wrong with you. You have no business being on any board or committee. You are not worthy,

 

You picked the wrong day. Your statement is now on Nextdoor. You don't know when to stop. You have no boundaries, ethics, or any idea about people in general. You want the name of the Seargent? I will give it to you. It's Sella. Call and verify yourself.

I am attorney-in-fact for my neighbor, who is old and lost his partner a year ago. We had to put his dog down this morning. Word of advice, don't screw with me anymore. Stay out of my face you snarky little old decrepit man or I will send the rest of your little references to murder mystery books to Sgt. Sella and tell him to act on the complaint. There is a special place in hell for people like you.

 

I have no reason to doubt you John, i always expect the best from those we elect. I have often been disappointed. I said i wouldn't sign the recall petition until i see what they do. Once they show us it may be the only alternative. Historically we know groups have targeted the Pres and V-Pres. Given we are going into an election, it may make more sense to target the two or three driving the bus than the whole lot of them.

We'll know shortly. I would hope anyone sitting on the stage has the presence of mind to listen before they vote and not have a predetermined outcome.

 

We all have.

 

I believe there are only 2 new positions, so for all intents and purposes, it's the same board.

 

I get the feeling that the Board is going to amend the original motion to include a comprehensive plan on the entire Lake View property to locate a PAC rather than fixing a location that would destroy a perfectly good amenity (i.e. Lawn Bowling Courts).

On another note: What a pathetic turn-out at the two Candidate Forums. I was at both and counted approximately 50 people on Monday and 35 tonight! And several of those who showed up tonight were the same people I saw on Monday!!!!

If the Board needs to do anything, it needs to figure out how to get the community involved.

As you will probably see at Thursday Board Meeting, hundreds of Members showing up but most of those Members no nothing about the actual issue and have formed their opinions on rumors and social media sites!

 

Where are they supposed to learn about things? No info is given out, and if info was shared it would probably be from the board perspective. No one has taken an interest or done anything since Anne Stewart. At least she had the right stuff to fight for what she believed in whether you think she was right or wrong. Then those of us that were here saw how badly she was berated for standing up for what she thought was right. Makes a resident wonder why bother?

Then the big board debacle with deferred maintenance, libraries, grand, t-bird and now PAC. People retired to live out their best life here in God's waiting room, not fight daily with board members. It doesn't have to be this way but it is. And now with high PIF/CIF if anyone wants to sell (like they could right now) they would probably have to decrease their price by those amounts to get a buyer. Why pay that much when you have newer/nicer communities near by. Keep in mind when flippers come in they do cosmetics, not guts, and until one of you has an interior pipe burst because it's 60+ years old I don't want to hear about outside home aesthetics. Stucco the hell out of your home, pipes are still old.

 

Which is why those 2 are trying to ram this decision through before they leave, and their dreams for dogs playing pickleball vanish.

 

Tom, I hope you are right that the Board will amend the original motion for a comprehensive plan for Lakeview rather than putting the PAC where the lawn bowling courts are. As I have said repeatedly, when the bids come in for MV and the PAC, I think RCSC will be hard pressed to have the money to do it all in the near future. That's where the expanded Foundation goals could help out. However all this controversy is not going to help the Foundation raise funds from either Members or outside grants. That's concerning to me.

 

I'm not sure what to think?

I've heard speculation from others who believe that SnowBirds deserve a good part of the blame because they own their two homes and just come here to get away from cold winters and play golf and don't really join any Clubs or care about anything else.

Now...I know many SnowBirds and although some are very involved with the RCSC and committees even when back in their home state, but the vast majority of those I know have no involvement at all?

I know that's a very controversial statement but it does seem to explain part of the problem, and somehow the RCSC or Outreach and Communication Committee needs to find a way to reverse the complacency and get the community back involved. Probably an impossible task?

As some have commented, we need a community of Members who came to Sun City because it's a great place to live rather than just being a cheap place to live!!!!

 

That may be true, Tom, but I think complacency is common everywhere. Do you attend Maricopa County Supervisor meetings, SCHOA's, the Posse's, fire department's? I don't. We all find the areas where our interests lie. Snowbirds who own two homes have twice the community involvement to attend to. Here in Nebraska, I have been involved in some campaigns in the state and keep track of city business as well. Plus I belong to a couple of clubs here and try to use the amenities that are here.

 

You have a power of attorney (POA) probably over estate and person. That is different from attorney-in-fact as I was formerly one during my career. So you posted my a site I never registered for as I deal enough with low info people here. You will also send bits from Sherlock Holmes that I never quoted?! The good Sgt. must think you are a beanbag and with all your carping, why has he never contacted me? Strange days.

I am an atheist you blithering twit.

 

It is justified, it’s the truth and it’s always funny. You just don’t like my presentation. Can you prove me wrong, take a shot? I am worthy because I bowed down to Alice Cooper in 1971 when his album, Love It to Death was released.

 

The Board killed both the PAC and the MV renovations in one fell swoop. Back to the beginning with more plans, data, arguing members and nothing getting done for five years. Well done members, you got more than you asked for.