Nov. 11 Special Session

If past BOD practice means anything, I’m sure they will vote it in and then direct the GM to define and develop the policy. Like what happened with the PIF /CIF.

 

Oh! You mean they have to pass it before we can read it! Where have I heard that before?

Sorry, but IMO it doesn't or shouldn't work that way. You need to know what you're voting on.

How about developing the entire policy and then vote on or amend that?

 

Yes. Only one reading is required to pass.

The way I read the draft bylaws on this, they eliminated the need to post an Executive Session out to everybody because if they are going to hold a Special Session entirely in an Executive Session, the only Members required to receive the notice of call are those who will attend the Executive Session.

 

As usual, clarity on issues is not one of their strengths. There has long been a buy-in fee for after the fact developments and oddly there's not been much information about them. K-Hov's 142 units was one of them that asked for relief on their first properties. Obviously the value for any developer in Sun City is being able to include the ability to use/be members of the RCSC.

Spelling it out is a good thing. Over the next ten years, i suspect we will see any number of investors wanting to take advantage of pieces of property (private golf courses and commercial centers) with either add high rises or condo type units in sizable numbers. We saw the proposal for Union Hills, it's just a matter of time for the dominoes to start falling. More revenue and more members.

As far as the Lakeview PAC, it's obviously a rush job with next Monday's meeting used as a first reading and the vote on the board meeting a week or two later. They know there will be a lot of push back and their goal is obviously to shorten the time frame for mounting resistance. To be clear, the Lakeview center sits on 17 acres. The idea the PAC has to take the lawn bowling greens when a far better site would be behind the bowling alley is questionable at best.

Let the games begin all over again. eh?

 

I agree. Just was stating what they did with the CIF.

 

So is the love affair over? The one you said would live forever? I have been saying for a long time Sun City is not for the next 2 or 3 generations.

Now because I just can't help myself, and took so much grief for so long, I am letting my inner child out just this once. I DON'T SEE ALL THAT JOY BILL!
Enjoy your evening.

Is the Sun Setting On Sun City? | Talk of Sun City

 

Hi Bill,
I agree with you that it feels like this is being rushed. My thoughts to this board is you are going to permanently change Lakeview topography forever to satisfy, a group of people that want to have a theater. The natural serene openness and beauty of this place will be forever changed. I live near Lakeview and go there often just as a respite to walk around, relax and refresh, and now the place is going to be carved up and a large building will be shoehorned in there and will forever change that signature resort style beauty that Del Webb, the man created for us. I love being outdoors, when are we going to add and enhance the things that promote good health and add beauty.

 

If each of us goes out and gets at least 2-5 residents come to comment on the thoughts of this $14M plus spend, we can present a case that will be louder than the small group that has been squealing.

We need representation to comment on this spend. We have no idea what specifically, in design, they are proceeding to spend OUR $14M+ on . . . . will it be a venue that is good for the community as a WHOLE - which is what the Board is commissioned to do?

Commenting here and on social media is a start but it's not going to get the response Sue Blechl achieved in her efforts for the disasterous library issue.

How about instead of a theatre that limits activity at that beautiful location - we create a building that will allow the theatre a venue, but also creates a wider opportunity for other activities? e.g. using the fold-out theatre seating (nice seating) that was researched by one of our members, which will allow using the facility for other uses. Adding walking paths that tie into the beautiful hill and a cafe of some sort for gathering.

They are not thinking bigger, longer-term picture for the best interest of Sun City.

 

Thanks Eileen for actually having a meaningful dialogue rather than petty conversations steeped in the hatred and rage constantly posted here on TOSC.

I make no pretense of knowing what the board will or won't do at Lakeview. It certainly appears as if they just want to rush through the theater on the lawn bowling greens without any real comprehensive plans for the remaining 15 acres of property. That placement will abut the adjacent properties with a towering multi story building immediately outside their back door. Worse yet, it detracts from the amazing open space along the lake (as you noted).

Full disclosure, i am a lawn bowler but even if i wasn't, i would expect this board to present the long range plan for the entirety of the 17 acre project before beginning anything. Let me be clear, it is obvious that is not the case as once Mountain View is finished, along with this poorly thought out PAC and the golf course renovations done due the 2025 water management plan (30 million dollars plus), every nickle of PIF will be tied up until somewhere near 2030.

I have in my desk drawer a thumb drive done at least 5 years ago prepared by a now departed RCSC staff member. It was a fascinating and ambitious project showing a 1960's looking Broadway theater being placed behind the bowling alley. There are two tired old buildings that need be torn down, 4 tennis courts that have been in disrepair for a half a dozen years or more and the mini-golf course that would allow allocate more than enough land and not detract from the beauty of the lake setting.

I questioned a person involved as to why not there and apparently the architects claimed it would be more expensive to build on that location. I have long argued, Lakeview is directly in the center, the hub of our community. Had we bought the Lakes Club, none of this would even be an issue. We didn't, but the lesson we should take from not buying it is to get it right this time.

We need to get the Mountain View remodel done quickly and before we so anything else. We owe it to the members living there. We have to resolve our issues with the state's 2025 water management plan and the golf courses. In the interim, we can make a cohesive and comprehensive plan on what to do at the Lakeview Rec Center.

I will just close with those old adage from the AA big book: Half measures avail us nothing. This scramble at Lakeview looks and feels like a half measure.

 

Bill,

Thank you kindly for your generous words and historical context. I agree with you on the space behind bowling alley if they have to carve up Lakeview.
Someone mentioned multi purpose use building.
I guess This will be unpopular for me to say this, but I think we should maybe rebuild out MView and make it a great fitness center, and stop building buildings, period.
Let's be honest, this is not a high end over 55 community. We are going to spend all our funds adding buildings for clubs when you have a very large contingent of lower middle class homes and residents here. The place is modest, at best.
Can we focus on updating our current infrastructures but think of adding more physical outdoor beauty to protect the integrity of some of our original charm. Of course the architects would love to change it all up. That's what they do.
Bill, I do like your idea of going to back of bowling alley. It would not destroy the open views you get when you are at Lakeview.
Thanks for listening.

 

Really Bill? I can quickly pull together a list of all your petty conversations steeped in the hatred and rage regarding JOY and your hate. There are so many and there was nothing half measure about them.

 

Reality is becoming clearer. The Board will not allow comments on whether it makes sense to build a theater at the Exchange meeting or the special session. To quote a former RCSC Board President - The train has left the station as far as the Board is concerned and the $14m++ ticket to theater city may not be discussed.
It is deja vu all over again! This is the same tactics as before. Horse trade behind closed doors and then use a hush and rush process to get it built before anyone knows what has happened to them. Really?
I can assure you that the substantial fee increase associated with the operation of this theater IS NOT REFELCTED IN THE FIVE-YEAR PLAN. I am growing tired of the apathy among us. When a 75-member club can ram through a $14M capital project and no one has the guts to ask questions I wonder about the sustainability of our community. BTW - You are welcome. I single handedly stood between the members and a $40M theater this 75-member club was demanding.
Best regards and God Bless,

John

 

I believe that is incorrect.

Article V, Section 5 says the following;
"Member comments at Board Meetings will be limited to posted motions."
This is still a Board Meeting, albeit a Special Session.

 

Special Session Agenda 11/11/24 SpecialSessionAgenda_2024-11-11.pdf

NOVEMBER 11, 2024 EXCHANGE TOPICS SPREADSHEET Exchange_2024-11-11.pdf

They have sent out so many emails I gave up.

 

Tom Foster, board president has said
said there are two opportunities for members to speak to the PAC location motion.
EXCERPT FROM
Lakeview wins recommendation for PAC
Architects choose lakefront for stage
By Scott Tynes | Independent Newsmedia
Nov. 6, 2024 Sun City Independent print edition

“A team of architects from LAST Architects, representing TriArc Architecture and Design, presented their findings to the RCSC board of directors and members during a planning session that followed its regular Oct. 31 board meeting.

Membership was not allowed to comment after the presentation, but Tom Foster, board president, said there would be opportunities for members to comment in a special session immediately following the exchange meeting Nov. 11. He said because comments could be made at the special session, the board would limit exchange meeting discussions to non-PAC issues. The board intends to vote on the location at the 9 a.m. Nov. 21 board meeting after hearing from the members.”

 

Should be an interesting meeting.
Behind door #1: You can’t speak at all.
Behind door #2: You can speak if you signed up before the meeting starts.
Behind door #3: Just get in line and speak to your heart’s content (but only 3 minutes, unless a board member chimes in, and then “stop the clock”).
Which door will the board choose??

 

(EyesOpen) Membership was not allowed to comment after the presentation, but Tom Foster, board president, said there would be opportunities for members to comment in a special session immediately following the exchange meeting Nov. 11. He said because comments could be made at the special session, the board would limit exchange meeting discussions to non-PAC issues. The board intends to vote on the location at the 9 a.m. Nov. 21 board meeting after hearing from the members.”

If that is the case, then why is this on the agenda for Monday?

• Director Collins: I move that the recommendation by TriArc, the architect- engineering firm designing the Mountainview project, regarding the location of the proposed Performing Arts Center (PAC), be accepted.

I guess they are going to listen to us and then go ahead and vote. Then 10 days later, they will let us speak again then vote on a second read, and it's a done deal.

Unless the Board has more details than we do, I can't imagine rushing this through without a Master Plan, drawings, or dollar figures!
Jean

 

John,
Since it was no long ago you may have forgotten, but I voted "no" the second time around when the rest of the Board wanted to send the list of elements to the GM/architects chosen.
Jean

 

I do believe that motions made in Special Sessions only require one vote to pass, not two readings.

"Motions made in Board meetings, excluding Executive Sessions, Special Sessions and the Exchanges, shall be read and passed a minimum of two times..."

 

It's all just sad now. Loved visiting my folks in the 80's and 90's. Couldn't wait to move here. Moved here in 2004 to take care of folks. Too busy to pay too much attention. Was able to start paying attention around 2008 and watched things deteriorate to the point where homeless are sleeping on golf courses, cars on my street are broken into all the time, there was a stabbing 5 door down from me and read this week's Independent. Squatters living in a home have 3 pitties who have been reported for 17 months to HOA, MCSO and animal control attacked a woman walking her two little dogs. One had to have both eyes removed. A couple stopped to help. the woman had a walker and the man had a walking stick trying to fend the dogs off.

Raise those rates. Build multi-million-dollar buildings we don't need and price us all out of Sun City.