This past ten days has resulted in a flurry of commentary and intense scrutiny of the RCSC in action. Since the revelation the two Sun City libraries are under scrutiny and leases being discussed and weighed, i've been delighted and encouraged by the angst that has arisen. Talk about waking the sleeping giant. I'd be less than honest if i also didn't admit some frustration. I was pretty sure once the GM returned there would be an instant reversal and the shit-storm would be settled by the coming Monday meeting. Sadly, what they offered (they being the board's meeting with the general manager during the week), was too little, too late. It simply wasn't enough to stop the siren call for showing up en masse at the Sundial auditorium April 8 at 9 am. My frustrations go deeper than that though. The problem with being involved as i have been for 20 years, often means i have been exposed to more stuff, than most. We dealt with this very same issue in 2014 while i was on the board of directors for the RCSC. The county had signed a 5 year lease where they were paying us for the library space. In 2014, they told us that wasn't their typical business model. They argued we should "give" them the space and they would provide the money and resources to run them. We looked at the utilization numbers and realized it was wildly popular amenity and quickly agreed to their terms. We did look briefly at alternatives to driving revenue but decided it wasn't worth the struggle to try and generate $50-$100k from another source. Obviously similar negotiations took place in 2019, and the outcome was much the same. Another 5 year, no revenue lease with the county was negotiated and the libraries continued to exist in peaceful harmony. Now with that 5 year agreement expiring, everything appears to have changed. It begs the question; why? This is one of those times where the cries for "transparency" becomes so important. No one should be foolish enough to think the general manager would get into this kind of fight over ego or some sense of we need the space alone argument. At this exact moment in time, we have less clubs than in previous years and with the added 8th rec center, Grand, more space available. We also have utilization data regarding open flat space and it tells us we have unused flat space well over 50% of the time. The problem is the same as we have had for more years than i can count; there are prime times where the space is highly desirable, and off peak times no one wants or uses it. It's further been exacerbated by the roar of members simply wanting more. It gets worse as those who had outdoor space, now want indoor space to escape the summers heat. It gets even more difficult though and here's why. The RCSC went for years with very small or no increases in the annual lot assessment. It created a mindset that everything was going really good because we didn't need the money and more-so when we found out we had large carry-forward reserves. Then the reality hit. The former, former GM retired and the new hand-picked guy had his hands full. He knew we were in trouble but refused to tell us how bad it was and why he even needed an increase at all. Once he left, the interim general manager said to hell with it, threw the books open and what we saw wasn't pretty. The 20 million dollar deferred maintenance sent shock waves through the budget and finance committee. Catching up wasn't going to be easy, nor cheap. We already knew our technology was antiquated and needed a substantial infusion of cash. We knew there were issues on our golf courses. We knew the massive Mountain View remodel would blow up our PIF budgets for years. All of which caused a major overhaul in how we were doing business. The commitment was to create a 5 year reserve study for all assets owned by the RCSC. Along with that came rewriting the long range PIF plan for the next 10 years (or more). Hopefully released this year. But for now, the item to focus on is the 5 year reserve study. Everything the RCSC owns, wears out at some point. Typically called "use-full life," it's the obligation for the RCSC to plan on when to replace everything that will be wearing out. It's no small task and it's no perfect science, but it's close. We had one in 2010 for the next ten years but at some point management quit paying attention. I would be stunned if during this reserve study the equipment servicing the libraries wasn't factored in to the ongoing discussions. The Bell library is a free-standing building and as such, has it's own equipment. On the other hand, Fairway is within the main building structure and most likely has shared equipment. Due diligence would include trying to recover some of those costs. Much like we did in 2014, was there another alternative beyond the county's lease? Think back then, we didn't need the money, everything was going good. In the past two years, we've seen our lot assessments go up by $75 and $1000 added to the newly created CIF. But wait, there's more. There's rumblings, that won't be enough. Some are projecting as much as another $50 hike in 2025. That would be crushing to some members. I've argued against big increases at least until we saw actual proof of them getting the work done. My argument fell on deaf ears. There's more to this discussion, but suffice to say, there's always two sides to every story and tragically only one side is being put forward. And to be clear, i'm not arguing one side against the other, i am attempting to help members know there is more to the story than you are hearing or reading.
Don't understand 2 parts of this: 1. Then the reality hit. The former, former GM retired and the new hand-picked guy had his hands full. He knew we were in trouble but refused to tell us how bad it was and why he even needed an increase at all. Once he left, the interim general manager said to hell with it, threw the books open and what we saw wasn't pretty. Why didn't anyone, not one person, ever "throw the books open" before??? I have asked this several times with no response. Would they be arrested? Were the books bound with an exploding device if opened? (Was going to say 'booby trapped', but didn't want to trigger anyone. 2. It gets even more difficult though and here's why. The RCSC went for years with very small or no increases in the annual lot assessment. It created a mindset that everything was going really good because we didn't need the money and more-so when we found out we had large carry-forward reserves. And yet they found it prudent to DECREASE the assessment by changing it to per lot instead of per person as it was set up in 1960, and the same as every other Webb community in the country is set up. 2022 census 37,748 people let’s use 37,000 37,000 x $400 per person assessment = $14,800,000 assessment income using $400 because this is pretend 2022 census married couples 56% let’s use 50% because this is pretend 18,500 married couples per home would be $7,400,000 assessment income, but wait, only 1 lot is charged. Not 2 people like Del Webb wanted it to be. 9,250 $3,700,000 when if left alone it would have been $7,400,000 27,230 housing units in Sun City x $400 = $10,892,000 Now this is an example from 2022 census bureau numbers, and I am no way any sort of math person, so if this example is wrong let me know. If this pretend scenario is correct how much money are we talking about over a span of 19 years. 2003 to 2022.
Josie - good questions - but only the folks who were involved in both can answer. We could sit here all day and take guesses, but that isn't going to accomplish anything. We have to move forward. The Board is all volunteer Members of the same community they live in who felt that they had something of themselves to give back. Some may have sat on boards, before but I think the majority hasn't. They have only their life experiences to go by. They are offered little to no training here; hopefully they bring it from prior occupations. They do their best. We homeowners/Members have to stay involved and be responsible and do it with courtesy. There is more than fun and games involved when you purchase a home here. IMHO, When new homeowners go to Cardholder Services to pick up their membership card, we are not taking advantage of that opportunity to communicate, educate and talk about participation. The history of the original Sun City and the concept of self-governance needs to be explained. More people might "get it" if they are given the knowledge. That is why the Sun City Advocates were started a couple of years. Yes, they had a great deal to do with the last three elections, but it basically came down to their mission: Communication, Education and Participation. That's it! Three simple words. As I said when I started, we won't know why things that happened in the past, happened. We could write volumes wondering and making guesses. But, what' the point? Let's move on. I'm not criticizing you; I'm simply making a suggestion that you can agree with or ignore. Don't forget - to find out answers for the problems facing us now - show up at the Member Exchange on Monday, April 8th at 9 am at the Sundial auditorium. Wear BLUE. One does not need to sign up to speak. One simply gives their name and rec. card number. They will have 3 minutes. I find that writing down what I want to say ahead of time helps keep me on track. Jean Totten as One Day at a Time
To continue with the discussion, the RCSC has a standard operating procedure of not showing contracts with vendors or of the bidding process. There's nothing sinister about it, most organizations and businesses don't reveal the contracts they have in place with those they do business with. There is a mechanism to review documents but i could only speculate how much they would show a member and my best guess is it wouldn't be much. Board members can and should ask to see that info. Here's why: They have a fiduciary obligation to the membership. We went through a long cycle where the management team asked for and got more and more of the responsibility of running the assets of the corporation. The board trusted the general manager to do the right things. On it's face, as years went by with little or no increases, everyone was happy. As members were told to just move here and have fun, more and more members did just that. As i have written a hundred times, had the GM been infallible, like the pope, no problem. Sadly as we dismantled the safeguards the community had built into their documents, the ability to hold anyone accountable diminished. In retrospect, it was wrong, shortsighted. Yup, fees stayed lowed and well fell further and further behind. And now we are all paying for it. Looking forward, the board and management need be looking at every activity and amenity. They need to weigh the cost of each against the numbers of members/residents using them. In for profit corporations they call it return on investment. Not for profits aren't attached to the same kind of measurements, but as we try and recover from our mistakes, we need to begin to become accountable, more responsible. We know the data regarding the library utilization numbers are good. What they should be doing is comparing them to other activities under their purview. They have the data, show us all how it stacks up against other things they monitor. In fact, someone could probably find the utilization numbers on the RCSC website. It seems to me they post it yearly. Nope, not interested in doing the research. The information you won't find is what it costs the RCSC to host the libraries and the related costs. I have no idea what the contract calls for, air, heat, cleaning and general maintenance; does the RCSC pick up the tab? Or, does the county? Are there major improvements to the builds they are in scheduled and how much will they cost during the life of the contract? The point isn't to suggest the library is a bad investment but an obligation to know from a fiduciary perspective whether it is right or wrong, good or bad. That's the correct way for board's to function.
Josie - good questions - but only the folks who were involved in both can answer. We could sit here all day and take guesses, but that isn't going to accomplish anything. We have to move forward. The Board is all volunteer Members of the same community they live in who felt that they had something of themselves to give back. Some may have sat on boards, before but I think the majority hasn't. They have only their life experiences to go by. They are offered little to no training here; hopefully they bring it from prior occupations. They do their best. If a management company was brought in we would probably be a lot better off. What is the point of having people run a community who have no clue how to do it? We homeowners/Members have to stay involved and be responsible and do it with courtesy. That’s all well and good, however I and most people who have worked hard all our lives want our “Golden Years” to be stress free and we want to enjoy life. When I signed the documents nowhere did it state it is my responsibility to run a community. Obviously those who started Sun City were a lot better at self governance than those that moved in later. Do it with courtesy? Sorry Jean, you be courteous when someone tells you no one gives a shit about you, or refers to an aquaintance as Anne of Cleavage. When attacked it’s difficult not to defend yourself. There is more than fun and games involved when you purchase a home here. IMHO, When new homeowners go to Cardholder Services to pick up their membership card, we are not taking advantage of that opportunity to communicate, educate and talk about participation. The history of the original Sun City and the concept of self-governance needs to be explained. More people might "get it" if they are given the knowledge. That is why the Sun City Advocates were started a couple of years. Yes, they had a great deal to do with the last three elections, but it basically came down to their mission: Communication, Education and Participation. That's it! Three simple words. As I said when I started, we won't know why things that happened in the past, happened. So there are no minutes or records regarding the change in assessment in 2003? There is no reason why we just found out from someone “opening a book” how bad things are? IMHO there is NO excuse for NOT opening a book. This quote from Dave on the Library forum can apply here. “This sounds like normal cover your ass language. Talk about a giant shit sandwich.” We could write volumes wondering and making guesses. But, what' the point? Let's move on. I'm not criticizing you; I'm simply making a suggestion that you can agree with or ignore. You want to move on, however there are people who will not let go of the past. When I ask about the past I am told to forget about it. Look to the future. Don't forget - to find out answers for the problems facing us now - show up at the Member Exchange on Monday, April 8th at 9 am at the Sundial auditorium. Wear BLUE. One does not need to sign up to speak. One simply gives their name and rec. card number. They will have 3 minutes. I find that writing down what I want to say ahead of time helps keep me on track. Jean Totten as One Day at a Time For me if I can move I will. There are pros and cons to both staying and leaving. The future is too financially uncertain here, and right now I am living below poverty level. (No Bill I am not whining, it’s just a fact). Downsizing would be prudent. The Library is not a huge concern of mine. If you have a card any library will work. I have an in-law and former co-workers who live in SCW and they have no issues. I had a major issue with SCF and RCSC Cardmember Services. There is one major issue that would make me not want to move, and I can’t, as usual, get a return call. Please see my thread The More Things Change……
What I find somewhat sinister is the fact that apparently only SOME of the board had any knowledge of the pending lease agreement and not ALL of the Directors? Is the board so fractured, and only some Directors so favored, that only THEY get information directly from the GM, and the rest only find out about things thru rumors, blogs, or when approached by an inquisitive Member? My god! I've said it before. I don't care who the RCSC buys their paper goods and cleaning products from, but when there's a decision that affects the entire community and county you would think they would be smart enough and transparent enough to know they must include the opinions of the Membership?
Just a note about when you decide to reply to a post: If you hit the tab below that says "Reply," a screen will appear that shows what the poster wrote who you are replying to. You don't have to copy anything or paste; the screen will show up on your post after you actually post it. After you make your post, then you hit "Post Reply." You mentioned a Management Company: that would require a percentage of the Membership to change the Articles and Bylaws. You mentioned that people who move here do so to be stress free and have fun. Yes, they do. But they should also have a feeling of responsibility to their community. No, you can't make someone feel responsible. (Just look at some of the conditions of some of the homes here. Either they aren't feeling responsible, can't afford to maintain or are absent owners.) There has to be a better way to invoke this responsibility into Members or eventually their will no longer be a RCSC. You mention records/minutes of when the assessment changed. I have no idea if there is. The recourse is to change the Articles/Bylaws and the way to do that is by gathering enough proxies or live votes and attending an Annual Meeting. Until that happens, it is just chatter. You mention moving when I said to show up at the Exchange. That is your right; but you should still show up in solidarity for how you feel. I'm not going to discuss any longer. My point was to be sure and attend the Exchange on Monday. Your points are always to attack. Jean Totten as One Day at a Time
I am fully aware of the reply button and how it works, but thanks. I did a copy/paste to word so I could go back and forth between replying and helping my neighbor. Did you even read my response? Not attacking, I would like answers. You all don't have answers so you attack me because I question things.
Folks, I hope everyone who attends the Exchange meeting does so to gain a better understanding of the proposed (now revoked) library decision and the reasoning behind it. I will be there to listen and am hopeful the Board will choose to be completely open and honest this time. It is good to see Jean back on these pages and continuing her involvement in improving the RCSC self-governance process. John Fast
Thank you, John. We didn't always agree on everything (which is our right), but we worked hard together to be voted into the Board. Thank you for introducing the idea of a Mission, Vision and Values statement to replace the one that no one knew we had. You worked as the chair of the Long Range Planning Committee to create a well-publicized, talked about for months, and agreed upon Mission, Vision and Values statement that our current Board just used in their email blast yesterday (4.5.24). You also were an integral part of the instituting a 5 or 10 year Plan that has the budget and the PIF working together that the GM has created a "team" for. Unfortunately, that "team" is not sharing any communication to the Members; not like the SAC committee did. Speaking of that committee, you introduced the motion early on in our tenure to stop working on the Taj Mahal Mountain View plan that would have ended up costing well over the amount of PIF money allotted to it. I know that some Members were upset by that, but in the end after getting more and more information about what was planned, etc., they realized it was the correct thing to do. I hope you will consider becoming a member of the Advocates, too. My time on the Board was too short, and I felt I was ineffective. I feel I can do more for the community as an Advocate than I did as a Board member. Jean Totten as One Day at a Time
I doubt we will ever get to the truth about the libraries. I watched the video, backed it up several times during, rewatched statements by board members and am not convinced they will do what the people want. They know, but will they do it. Do they really care? Kat not there this time, GM absent last time. According to folks there have been board issues since 2006, and not one person can answer one simple question related to this statement: "Then the reality hit. The former, former GM retired and the new hand-picked guy had his hands full. He knew we were in trouble but refused to tell us how bad it was and why he even needed an increase at all. Once he left, the interim general manager said to hell with it, threw the books open and what we saw wasn't pretty." Why didn't anyone, not one person, ever "throw the books open" before??? I have asked this several times with no response. Would they be arrested? Were the books bound with an exploding device if opened? 18 years and no one looked/questioned any financial info. Bloody amazing.
Hello, I am probably the best person to answer parts of this question or at least I have fooled myself into thinking that. When I joined the Board (Kevin was pretty new) I required that the budget be published. My purpose was not to expose sinister dealings or anything like that it was based simply on my personal philosophy that the harder you try to "conceal" information the more people want it. Our financial information is rather ho hum to me because I have financial experience (at least that is my story and I am sticking to it.) I also requested that the budget be developed in an open transparent environment in concert with the F&B committee. Why? Again, I was not attempting to expose anything. I just followed my philosophy that the more members understand about financial realities the more likely it is they will accept the tradeoffs that have to be made. I hope this helps. I think it worked. Now I find the new GM has taken a huge step backward in trying to conceal the development of financial policy and has gone so far as to arrange BOARD committee meetings that are not announced and justify them by renaming them.
Thank you. Financials are not the most fun part of a board meeting. In all the years of taking minutes at Sun Health Foundation BOD meetings that was the time frame you could see most of the MD's and local business owners' eyes start to glaze over. Apparently, I am not asking the question in the correct way. Just trying to understand why no one noticed the $0 (or whatever the figure was) increase to $20 million deferred maintenance jump over an 18 year period. IMO it's kind of important, I don't know. Maybe something simpler like my 82 year old neighbor taking his 47 year life partners death cert to RCSC office for a rec fee refund being told to get a lawyer. He did get the $145.00 after many emails, visits, filling out same paperwork twice and 45 days. All is good! It's a beautiful day! I did not have to put my dog down yesterday; it does not get much better than that! Namaste!
ABOUT THE SUN CITY ADVOCATES Our Vision and Mission Sun City Advocates was started to begin to recover that sense of community that has been lost during the past 15 years. Sun City was built on a platform of volunteerism, ownership, and participation by those owning homes here. The members mattered, when Sun City first opened, they should still matter today. Sun City Advocates aren't against anything or anybody. We may question the RCSC's actions and be a voice for reasonable solutions. Expecting the board and or management to be able to articulate what they are doing and why is Sun City's historical approach to the concept of self-governance. We will however hold the board and management accountable. Please join us as we Educate, Communicate and Participate in our local community. ~ Advisory Panel - Sun City Advocates # • Sun City Advocates website : https://suncityadvocates.blogspot.com/ • Welcome https://suncityadvocates.blogspot.com/p/welcome.html • Become a Sun City Advocate: https://suncityadvocates.us20.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=d835423f2971d8d49e3027269&id=eea55d34e9 • Sun City Advocates newsletter - please sign up to get updates directly in your inbox here: https://suncityadvocates.us20.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=d835423f2971d8d49e3027269&id=eea55d34e9
