RCSC BOARD SPECIAL SESSION!

I get it but I think the board knows it's time to shit or get off the pot?

 

Received some info about special meeting, from reliable source. My questions mostly answered. Life is good!

 

So...is it a secret? In one of your previous posts you asked "why such a mystery" and "transparency".

Now that you know are you willing to share?

 

OMG! LMAO! what a goat rope. Went back about a year or so, very interesting. Maybe posting the link to this site will get more lively chats, more SC folks engaged, increase transparency!

 

Info I received has already been stated on this thread in so many words. I did not garner the specifics on the “elements” I was hoping for. I am sure others have the specifics garnered from their favorite board member(s). So again, best to wait till Thursday or the video replay of the meeting.

 

According to 55places.com there are 145 retirement communities in Arizona.
The issue of people living only on SSI is not an issue with regards to the necessary and reasonable assessment fees to maintain recreation facilities in Sun City, AZ.

Sun City, AZ is the best value, by far, from any other community. Most communities are 2 to 3 times more costly in assessments. Most other communities also pay significant additional taxes. The Assessment and the Taxes must be considered together.

Sun City, AZ has some very unique items when it comes to governance:

• The population of Sun City is the largest for any community in the nation that is NOT under builder control. Comparing a Builder Controlled community with a Member (Resident) Controlled community is more like comparing Apples to Oranges. The Villages in Florida is often brought up as a comparison. The Villages is under Builder Control. The builder wants to sell homes and make money. The builder makes all the important decisions. This was the way in Sun City as Del Webb was building the first affordable active retirement community in the nation. Probably a surprise to many, there was no age requirement at the time. That came much later due to federal laws.
  
• Sun City, AZ is not within a municipality. Sun City lacks typical local control over Law Enforcement, road maintenance. Counties are typically larger geographical issues and mostly focus on a broader level. Our so called mayor would be the Maricopa County Supervisor for our county district #4. District 4 stats: Population (2010 Census): 779,79 and Square Miles: 2,295. Sun City is approximately 40,000 population and 13 square miles.
  
• Sun City, AZ does reside in a School District. So we have no Primary Education School Taxes. That alone makes the living ins Sun City such a value. We do pay for the County Colleges, but every community within Maricopa County, AZ pays this. It is an insignificant amount when compared with Primary Education School Taxes.
• Sun City does not pay a City tax (as does Peoria, Glendale, Surprise, Youngtown, El Mirage, etc). There are pros and cons. This leads to debate over whether Sun City should incorporate. It's also a significant and costly issue to consider and attain.
  
• Recreation funding is mandatory. This is what the current $575 annual ASSESSMENT covers. It does not cover the HOA side of living in Sun City. Whether you use it or not, our $135 million dollars of facilities is available to all residents within Sun City. That area is not defined by the Post Office. At one point they were in sync. But that is no longer true. [Incorrect statement in original post: "defined boundaries (Zip 85351). The Sun City Post Offices was provided an additional Zip Code to process mail (Zip 85373). The residents of Zip 85373 do not get to participate in the Recreational Centers of Sun City (RCSC)"].
  
• People assume that the RCSC covers all aspects of living in Sun City. It does not! RCSC is a non profit organization that covers the Recreational facilities that it owns.
• There are Home Owner Associations (HOAs) in Sun City. You cannot live in a residential home in Sun City that is not covered by an HOA. Note that Condominium Owners Associations are a unique form of HOA. So the statement that "There is no HOA in Sun City" is not true. The Sun City Home Owners Association covers 17,500 single family homes. There are about 10,000 condominiums that are covered by over 380 COAs. There are Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (CC&Rs) that cover all homes within Sun City. The core of the SCHOA CC&Rs is included within all COAs. Membership in SCHOA is OPTIONAL. SCHOA does not have the power to assess home owners as the RCSC does. Enforcement of CC&Rs is MANDATORY. SCHOA will enforce CC&Rs uniformly for all single family homes (member or not) and often assist COAs. Difficult offenders can be costly to enforce as the final method of enforcement is a lengthy and costly process through the county court system. SCHOA lives on a minute budget compared to the budget of the RCSC.

Back to the original topic that caused me to write this post "Not necessarily that easy for someone living on SSI, which many folks are." This is a true statement, but not a good reason to blame the RCSC and the need for increased assessments. I have a relative in this situation. As for me, I've been married for almost 47 years and 2 SSI incomes makes it easier.

I've tried to show the true value of living in Sun City, AZ. It is by far a tremendous value. Living on a single SSI amount is difficult and just under 10% of the community 3500 to 4000) people are in this situation. This is not insignificant. However just keeping RCSC assessments so low is not the answer. We have a $20 million dollar backlog of maintenance to deal with. This is not solved with money alone. It's Brooks' Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law). Nine women cannot make a baby in one month. The new RCSC General Manger appears to be effectively working on this. Let's give him a chance.

We need to find another solution to deal with Poverty Level Residents in Sun City. Put the energy into finding a creative solution to that problem. Stop complaining and crying over increased assessments and costs. Look at the Sun City Foundation and other possible organizations that could maybe become a better solution.

The changes in the RCSC Board over the past few years is opening communication and allowing for more member involvement. Bill Pearson already explained how the RCSC moved away from member participation. As for apathy in Sun City, that is another issue that will probably never be resolved. Even federal elections fall short in terms of voter turnout. It just says that most residents are happy with the way they live in Sun City. At least they are not upset enough to get involved or raise concerns. This just means that the minorities have more influence by how loud they can be.

Life is hard and I do not have any answers. I can only share what I have learned and hopefully empower others with knowledge that they can use to help with their causes and priorities. I believe this is what Bill Pearson has done with all his posts on this forum. It is education. The advocates came up with a great tag line "Communicate, Educate, Participate". They achieved many of their goals in getting more members involved in RCSC governance.

 

Every SC home north of Bell Rd is zip 85373

 

The statement above regarding ZIP code 85373 is not correct. Residences north of Union Hills (west of 107th) and north of Beardsley (east of 107th) are NOT within RCSC boundaries. 85373 starts at Bell Road and continues north. Please visit this link for more information: https://suncityaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Zip-Map-2019-07.pdf

 

Enter Bill Part 2. I said "Hindsight is 20/20...if only I had known 15 years ago what I know now. I am not the only one who feels this way according to different social media platforms. Sometimes you have to look outside the "walls" to see how others perceive a particular situation." I did not mention anything you said, but now that you brought it up it is NOT my fault Sun City had goof balls for board members for the past 15 or so years and got Sun City in 20 million debt. It is not my fault inflation is at a 40 year high. It is not my fault that interest rates have gone from 2,7% in 2021 to over 7% today. It is not my fault the same groceries that cost me $70 3 years ago to $135 today. I am happy for you and all those that are doing well financially. God bless all of you.

 

I stand corrected. My point does not change. Sun City with regards to RCSC is not defined by the post office. They were once in sync. As communities grow, zip codes areas expand and new zip codes are created. This is how the USPS manages delivery of mail.

 

I stand corrected. I updated this part of my original post. The point I was trying to make is unchanged.

 

Couple of points:

You talk about The Villages in Florida. You cannot compare the two. That would bike comparing Tolleson to Paradise Valley. Single Family Homes there: https://www.citrushills.com/single-family-homes

Builder Control: Please explain further. First time sale only? Who sold the first home in Sun City Phx?

No age requirement, never knew that. Our SC historian never mentioned it. so that changed too along with the per person to per roof assessment fee.

Population of SC has decreased from 40,000 to 32,000. My guess is it will further decrease due to the crime rate soaring in Youngtown and Phase 1. along with the now approved low income housing in Youngtown. From the AZ IDA https://arizonaida.com/2023/07/12/a...rge-youngtown-affordable-housing-development/

Cheap property taxes (no school tax) and cheap housing is the main reason why lower income folks have always purchased here.

No city sales tax.........only on food items. https://www.sales-taxes.com/az/85351

You quoted me: "Back to the original topic that caused me to write this post "Not necessarily that easy for someone living on SSI, which many folks are." This is a true statement, but not a good reason to blame the RCSC and the need for increased assessments. Please 'quote' where I blame RCSC'. My point always has been that the move in 2003 by the BOD from per person assessment to 'rooftop' assessment was not the right thing to do for singles living here. Not one person can explain why it was done. We are the only Webb Sun City who does it by rooftop. I did hear "it's too hard to keep track of". Why is every other Sun City capable of figuring out that process except ours.

I know no one "gives a sh*t" about me, however by the 1st amendment I do have the right to express my opinion. I thought I had the right of privacy as well but Bill chose to dox me. Not too concerned as there are only and handful who post here. Someone did point out that there are guests that view content, but obviously they don't care enough to join the conversations. ​

 

The beauty of the first amendment is that people/posters can just say stuff, whether it's true or not. Living in the tiny compartment of ones mind is ever expanded when the opportunity to just spew crap without having any filter on accuracy or supporting documentation. Let me amplify (only because i can and i am bored):

* The Villages versus Sun City: No comparison, none. The Morse family built the community (now covering three counties) and still has control. Webb/DEVCO built Sun City and gave the amenities to the community/RCSC. The costs to live in the Villages are considerably higher and vary from each individual setting (for example; a manufactured home less than the country club setting with gated entries). The Morse family owns and runs local newspapers and television channels piping in their choices of information. We are self-governed.

* Age restrictions. Yikes, really? Both Ben and i have spoken and written on how and when it all came about. When Sun City opened in 1960 there were no laws protecting/allowing age restricted communities. The effort was made by DEVCO to maintain sales to only those 50 and older. It wasn't a hard and fast rule, it legally couldn't be enforced. It wasn't until the early 80's when the Fair Housing Standards Act was passed allowing for "age discrimination" in senior communities. The interesting footnote to our history was once a couple of communities in the East Valley added it to their documents (as allowed under both state and federal statutes), residents in Sun City requested SCHOA help collect petitions to get it added to our documents. They balked at first, so a resident group started getting petitions signed (led by Betty Pearlman if memory serves me), the Home Owners Association quickly got on board and within a short time collected 70-80% of the members signatures and the age restrictions were added to our documents. Of course, many of you know this.

* Our population has not decreased, please disregard the comment as nonsense. You can go check the census on a 10 year interval basis for yourself. What has decreased is the RCSC membership. Their high water mark was in the 40,000 member range. They currently are in the 32,000 range. The difference comes from the number of rental properties from the 80's and 90's to today's unusual circumstances. Over the past 20 years, buying homes and renting them out has become popular for seniors, both living here and not. I've known any number of members having as many as 10 Sun City properties (some with more). The number we don't know (and i have argued we should) is how many privilege card holders there are? Renters do not have to buy the card, because the actual home owner pays the lot assessment but only gets an RCSC card in the home they live in. Hope that helps clarify for those who actually care.

* The popular mantra through all of the 70's,80's and 90's was there were more millionaires living in Sun City than in Scottsdale. I've never verified it, what we do know is as more expensive age restricted communities were opened, and seniors had more buying choices. That said, buying and living in Sun City was never intended to be affordable for everyone. There was always a cost associated with owning a Sun City property. Mike Wendel is spot on, calculating your living expenses should include combining your property taxes with your RCSC lot assessment and then comparing it to say property taxes in other incorporated communities. In almost every case, Sun City is less expensive...but was never intended to be considered "cheap." We used to argue we were affordable.

* Finally the elephant in the room is the "doxing" comment. Really? Who on this site knows (or cares) who you are HH? I know of two of us and that's only because of your interactions with us on other sites. Where i really get confued is in the simple fact i know (because you often make a point of it) is your politics. You of the party and support of a former president who has made an art form of revealing judges, lawyers, school librarians, volunteers at voting locations and local elected officials (and a host of others) names, home addresses, phone numbers and relatives so they could be harassed and threatened with all manners of violence and intimidation. It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

There's more and frankly the only reason i elected to respond is because of the misinformation you spout. We know way more people read this site than comment and nothing worse than seeing "alternative facts" being posted by someone who has no clue.

 

Not going to get into a pissing contest with you re politics. We all know what your view is from your answer to Tom:
Stop already Tom, go spew your bullshit on other sites where the crap has some crazy followers who want to eat your crap sandwiches. Sun City will be just fine long after you and i are both dead. Is there no level to the fear mongering by the right wing crazies? Why bother asking? Just go celebrate the hatred with Green, Santos, Beobert and that whole cast of nut jobs from Arizona. You know the answer to all of our problems already Tom...more freaking guns. See, problems solved.
BPearson, Feb 23, 2023

All you have to do is look at the economy, homelessness and the Southern border. Now for doxing I received this via email this am from Website 'keeper's" Acceptable Use Policy, or AUP Community Guidelines.

#3. "Transmitting, distributing or storing illegal or fraudulent information or material or information or material that will infringe or otherwise violate any privacy, intellectual property, publicity or other personal rights including, any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret or other proprietary right."

Edit: I apologize re Sun City population. it IS at 37k. I misread the 32k. Would you like me to appear publicly for the flogging? I have no problem admitting to making mistakes.

 

Wash, rinse repeat; No one knows or cares who you are...other than you. Do you really want too debate the "Southern Border Crisis" now that Mitch et al were ordered to stand down on resolving it? The height of hypocrisy knows no bounds.

By the way, cutting and pasting my comments, is that "doxing?" Probably not, what i write and say is almost always done under my own name. I happily take ownership of what is say, write, who i am and what i believe in.

 

Cut/paste is not doxing Bill. It's quoting. When Someone uses a pseudonym and another person refers to them using their real name...that is doxing. I thought we went over this? You have not done that with anyone but me. I know eyesopen's real name and would never disclose it as it is obvious he/she wants anonymity on this site. Actually several folks here use pseudonyms. Regarding the border I will let govt. stats speak for themselves since Joe took office. https://homeland.house.gov/2023/10/...ers-show-worst-year-at-americas-borders-ever/

Again:
Doxing (sometimes written as Doxxing) is the act of revealing identifying information about someone online, such as their real name, home address, workplace, phone, financial, and other personal information. That information is then circulated to the public — without the victim's permission.

What is Doxing – Definition and Explanation - Kaspersky
https://usa.kaspersky.com/resource-center/definitions/what-is-doxing

 

"The popular mantra through all of the 70's,80's and 90's was there were more millionaires living in Sun City than in Scottsdale." It's not the 70's 80's or even 90's anymore Bill, they are gone just like MS Dos computers. Stop harping on what was. How about reporting current facts? Oh yeah, wash, rinse, repeat.