SAC:10/27/23.

Let's get this out of the way first: Mountain View should never have gotten to the condition it is in. It's both embarrassing and shameful. That's yesterday's news, along with the caveat the Option 2 plan that was put on hold this year was even more a travesty. The size, duration of completion and ultimate cost estimates were straight from bizarro world.

Coming back to earth has been a struggle. It's been a long 5 month process where everyone was asked to reign their expectations and try and get a grip on what Mountain View really needed as opposed to what everyone wanted. It's been an interesting exercise of free will and spit-balling as anyone wanting to give a presentation has been allowed to do so.

We saw some interesting ideas regarding the Performing Arts Theater at Lakeview. And while they were good, the Lakeview remodel is years down the road. Telling the Sun City Players and the other groups who would use it to wait until sometime after 2030 was always going to be a no-go. Too bad because it would have been a better fit there in the middle of the community.

The problem from my perspective, as a casual follower and often time attendee, can be summed up in that old line from Cool Hand Luke: "What we have here is a failure to communicate." I would add one word, but that might insult some folks, but what the hell, i"ve often been told i am too blunt, too direct. My addition would be this: "What we have here is a failure to communicate honestly."

Yikes, and to be clear, the intent isn't to suggest dishonesty, but a willful decision to not fill in all the blanks and worse yet, the back story agenda's some people had. Unfortunately, i get caught up in what i would call insider baseball (tip of the hat to the D-Backs, tough one last night). People say things to me that they don't often say in public. My philosophy is a little different; if i am going to say it to one, i need be willing to say it to all. Effective communication usually gets twisted when we don't spell out what we are saying...or worse yet what we are wanting or expecting to happen.

Yesterday was the classic example of the old adage from the AA Big Book; "half-truths avail us nothing." Before we even go there, most readers/members were unaware one of the early (August) ideas was to cap the MV remodel costs at 10 million dollars. No one came out and said it and whenever the question was asked, board President Kat Fimmel repeatedly told the committee the PIF budget commitment was 27 million dollars. To her credit she saw that as the number, not everyone on the board liked that idea.

It gets worse though. Once the architect came in and started drilling down to actual needs, the process flew right along. Great progress was made as the goal/hope was to have a recommendation for the Town Hall meetings that gave the members and board at least a starting point and that fit in the 27 million dollar price range.

It all blew up yesterday, in spite of Norm Dickson's best efforts. He really did a good job, but it went sideways when the target started to move. The Pickleball club has told the committee they needed a total of 45 courts; 20 at Marinette and another 25 at Mountain View. That's always been their "must have."

A week or two ago, 4 of the committee members decided to post/present another proposal that they want put before the membership as a second option. The problem is, the cost goes from the 27 million allocated to more than 40 million dollars. It also is questionable where and how they would accommodate the parking necessary when you add 40,000 more square feet of indoor area. That would take another 200 parking spaces.

The committee shut down as the vote to recommend one or the other was a deadlock (6/6). At that point they allowed those attending to offer opinions. I've been hard pressed to sit through these meetings without speaking, so when given the chance, i offered up an alternative that had been taken of the table: Lawn bowlers don't need 7 playing surfaces; we can get by with 6 that are playable. The problem currently is that Fairway needs to be resurfaced, it was in the budget 4 years ago and hasn't been done yet. Mountain View could move there and the bowlers could decide grass or artificial. Bowlers love the grass and it could be done for half the price but the maintenance is twice the price.

The point here is simple: there are solutions, good solutions for Mountain View. What shouldn't be on the table is crazy expensive remodels and projects that wont fit the small 6.5 acre footprint. This is where it gets ugly: The argument really becomes; is an indoor pickleball venue more important than the performing arts theater? Both won't fit there from either a budgetary standpoint or meeting county code parking mandates.

I'm not blaming anyone, but this is where rigorous honesty when we started out would have been far more beneficial than asking members to get involved and then start moving the targets. I learned early on to "mean what i say and say what i mean." While some hate being that blunt, i never want folks not knowing what i am saying.

 

Hmmmm? So if grass costs twice as much as artificial grass to maintain, doesn't it make more sense to leave the tennis courts at MV and use the Lawn Bowling Court for the additional pickleball courts?

Think about the long term savings on maintenance costs, not to mention there are currently 7 courts in 5 locations!

 

I wasn't exactly thrilled when they announced who would be on the committee. When you have neighbors on the committee, they tend to protect their own turf and tend not to think outside the box. We can't have everything at every rec center, nor should we. In my opinion, and I'm sure many disagree there would be no fitness room, tennis, mini golf, and lawn bowling at Mountain View. The other rec centers can absorb the people that use Mountain View for those activities.
We see what the turf protectors do with golf. I always thought being a league golfer should disqualify a person from being on a golf committee not more or less be a prerequisite for membership. A dozen casual golfers would be more openminded.

 

Oh, my! If it isn't golf, it's pickleball, a theater, and on and on. Personally, when someone demands something, they start to lose me. As I have said in other posts, I think the Pickleball Club, the Board or the Management should research other pickleball facilities to see how they manage the use of courts to see if we can more efficiently use the ones we have. So if the pickleball advocates get their 25 (!) courts at Mountainview, then the Members in Phase 1 will have NO Minigolf or tennis? That is selfish. As I understand it, the Pickleball Club has over 1,000 members and growing. I have always supported keeping the 7 pickleball courts at MV but think 25 is unreasonable at the expense of other amenities. It has been said by many, that the 4,000+ golfers should pay more for the upkeep of the golf courses. I agree, but pickleball players seem to be elbowing their way past other interests. Not very appealing to me.

 

Too many people in Sun City are suffering from the Jack Horner Syndrome. You remember him don’t you? He’s the kid that stuck in his thumb and pulled out a plum. Lots of residents seem to think that’s how the PIF money works. Just build a wishlist and bitch til it happens. Not getting money fast enough? No problem, just raise the PIF. Not making the necessary maintenance obligations, no problem, just change the rules. It’s time to accept responsibility and live within our means! Recognize that maybe we don’t need all the fitness centers that we’ve had in the past. Recognize the importance of accurate data and current trends before spending millions of dollars on yesterday’s fad. Live for today with a definite eye on tomorrow.

 

So pickleball originated in Seattle Washington. All you newbies from Washington that are here are the ones causing all the problems in Sun City. Number one you are rude very rude in everything that you do that doesn't suit you. You don't know how to drive, you think it's all about you and nobody else and people have been waiting for decades for things to change and their needs and you think you can go to the front of the line and demand more courts at mountain view which is number one a rat hole a situated in the worst part of Sun City. For those not from Washington, get in your cars go across grand at the railroad tracks either at 103rd avenue 107th avenue 111th avenue and start driving south and see what a ghetto this is. Nothing but old dilapidated houses that nobody has done anything to forever. How any house could pass an inspection south of grand I have no idea. Who in the right mind would spend 40 million dollars were mountain view is located just to keep a handful a newbies that have never done anything to help anybody in Sun City but whine and complain and cause trouble because that's what you've done and that's what you're doing. Everybody cries about golf the people that should be crying are the ones that have been lied to for a couple decades for performing arts that every single person in Sun City Arizona could enjoy not just a handful of pickleballers. If you want to throw 24 pickleball courts add the other courts to it throw some fences up paint the asphalt and put it on the Southeast corner of Bell avenue at the rec center there where you can lease some portable toilets for your convenience. To throw some fences up isn't going to cost $40 million dollars. I'll say it again you lazy people that don't know anything about Sun City except to go to your rec centers and sit in the corner crying and pissing moaning. Do something worthwhile for at least minimum 5 to 10 years to help the community be a part of the community volunteer you don't know what volunteer means you don't know what helping your neighbor means it's all about you. By God for what I've heard they're gonna fight you to the nail for anything and everything you want stack the board good luck with that it's not all about you you think it is but it's not it's about the little old lady across the street from where everyone here lives has seen who can barely walk out to their mailbox and get their mail who has lived here for a long long time. I know most of you haven't lifted a finger to help anybody like this. I see it at the grocery store it's all about you get out of my way it's all about you worried about getting tickets to shows it's all about you it should be done by seniority who's lived here the longest they should get first pick but it's all about you you believe you're entitled you're not. Will say it again everybody get in your cars go South the grand go drive through the neighborhoods yes there's a few nice homes there but look at all the homeless look at the dilapidated properties and it's been that way for a long time and it's getting worse but it's all about you.

 

We are where we are with the SAC for a variety of reasons. Seems the committee will present two alternatives for MV. I have no problem with this and want to hear what other community members think. I hope the pickleball proponents refine and improve their presentation, including cost and a clear design drawing with explanation.

 

To answer Bill's question: "Is an indoor pickleball facility more important than a Performing Arts Center?" NO! I may never step in either one, but the Performing Arts Center should be a priority over an indoor pickleball facility. The Players have been pushed to the back burner far too long. A community needs more than just sports related venues. A community without a theater is missing an important amenity to attract a variety of residents.

Just one woman's thoughts!

 

It's a false equivalency Tom; offering up a proposal that fits both size and price point against a massive wish list that neither fits size, scope or costs is folly. Worse yet, what will happen is the pickleball club will rally the masses to compete for the space while the most under-served group of members (those who aren't sports-minded or club-active) will stay home not even knowing there is a popularity contest for what could be.

I'm not a big fan of the "silent majority" argument. I do understand the politics of push and i know it works. The Players have tried to make the argument there's a dozen other groups that would benefit from a true theater. They haven't exactly been chomping at the bit because their performances can and are often held elsewhere. It's not a do or die proposition, like the Players have.

As we age, comfortable seating is a real plus. If we had a theater; would our older, non-active members go to see near first run movies? Would they attend guest lecturers? Would they take continuing education classes that are more than what our life-long learning club provides? What if we actively promoted live events like that for those aren't chasing a little white ball on a golf course, hitting a plastic wiffle ball with a paddle or lifting weights and doing cardio?

One of our (Sun City's) shortcomings has been under-serving those who aren't athletically inclined and would benefit from the more cerebral side of the equation. Yes, craft and social clubs are good; are they enough? When talking with a couple of the authors of the "option," they mentioned that group of non-users was 2/3rds of our membership. I know they have the statistics, i don't, though they may be on SAC site.

I'm simply not a fan of the squeakiest wheel getting the grease; but more often than not, that is how Sun City has functioned. I've always supported the need for more pickleball courts, we fall far short of other senior communities on a per-capita basis. I just find it disingenuous to try and slip in the back door after telling us for 4 months what they needed was a total of 45 courts with all of them together in two venues. It was why i offered up a suggestion last Friday to get there (25 courts at MV).

The thing that blew this all up was the 13 million dollars renovation of the existing theater. I had people tell me they expected it to be 4-6 million dollars; i laughed to myself. Then it became the argument that much money was unwarranted for such a small percentage of the RCSC membership. All of which takes me back to the absolute mismanagement over the years where the general manager and a small group of board members decided our fate.

And now, here we sit, stuck with long-awaited expectations from the community, a massive bill for deferred maintenance projects, a technology infrastructure that was woefully behind where we are fighting to play catch-up and a golf structure that is simply unsustainable. I know, looking back is foolish, but it's how we learn and why this MV remodel should provide us a blueprint moving forward.

I love the idea of the town hall meetings, i think the proposed structure with multiple topics will be a cluster-flock. Sorry, and i hope i am wrong. I've been wrong many times in the past, so who knows?

 

Understood Bill! I mentioned my dismay when the townhalls morphed, as it seemed it would only be an info dump on the attending members. Oh well!

When special interest groups rally members everyone knows that is the case. Not a secret. Norm mentioned at the SAC they were going to limit those comments.

I was happy to hear the PAC estimate was only $13 million. Seems it will be a fabulous venue and if the players can accept the proposal great. To me there is no choice, the PAC needs to be built first. Players have waited long enough.

As I presented at the SAC couple months ago, convert tennis courts to pickleball and enclose all in a climate controlled structure. Would allow all day and all year play and would eliminate obnoxious noise for neighborhood and pool users. Marlene’s plan allows for this to be done in the future. That would need to be a guarantee.(do I hear long range planning)

Lastly, if more pickleball courts or parking is needed, move the lawn bowling to another location. The BOD promised townhalls for members to voice opinions on any SAC recommendations. So be it. As an aside comment, the $27 million figure did not start getting mentioned as an absolute, till about 2-3 weeks ago and I was told just suggest what you want to see done.

Oh and I dislike any corporate executive telling me I’m fired. What a crazy comment by that gentleman at the SAC meeting.

 

You're absolutely spot-on Bill!

While the jocks seem to be running the asylum, the intellectuals are left out in the cold!

There are so many different venues that a PAC facility could provide for, it's hard to imagine them all. Many still crave education. Some prefer history. Some prefer civics. How about documentary videos and lectures?

I think the RCSC would find that there would be a plethora of interests out there and the members would love to use the new facility as a meeting place. And I would almost guarantee that new Clubs would be established.

Just my opinion.

 

I love all of this. It sounds awesome. But why do we need to wait for a new facility for it to happen? Why cant we start some of this now?

Paul

 

Some of these comments remind me of what the town of Aspen CO has achieved. They have the history of the old buildings, the beautiful scenery of the Rocky Mountains, multiple ways to enjoy the outdoors, sports for all seasons, their Summer Music Institute, and the Aspen Institute with world renowned speakers and educational opportunities plus so many venues for dining. I know we can't be Aspen, but the concept is worth emulating Sun City style.

 

I think we lost the energy created from the ASU work groups. There has been too much lag time - probably due to overwhelmed committees during the summer. Maybe members will get re-energized after the Town Halls (or maybe it's wishful thinking).

 

Still not sure if the Town Halls are simply intended to inform the Members of the "why's" and "when's" or if the comments from Members will have any effect or ability to change their current paths or opinions?

 

I believe townhalls were originally designed to inform community of SAC recommendations. The BOD said they were going to happen so any member could express opinions and the SAC might use the comments to improve/change advice to the board. And then things morphed as I believe LRP group took over the townhalls. Thus, I too believe as Bill suggested, we may have a cluster party. We shall see!

SAC meeting next Friday should again be an interesting gathering!

 

They also have a $141 million annual budget for a town of less than 7,000 people. Kinda tough to compare us to them.

 

I think the delay with ASU completing the prospective active senior survey study is the hold-up to a final report we expected and need.

Then we’ll review, digest and determine our best decisions into the future.

Certainly hasn’t helped!

 

I am very well aware that we don't have the funds that Aspen CO has, but it is a wonderful concept that includes making the most of the climate, promoting outside activities, providing venues for various sporting activities, and broaden the offerings to include the arts, education and civics. I think that is something we can do in Sun City, just not at the level of Aspen.