Golf Advisory Committee

Anyone have info about the GAC held yesterday?

 

I'm going to share my thoughts in a lengthy commentary later today or tomorrow. For now, the committee recommended sending to the board the suggestions made by the director of golf (basically the amendments made at the Sept board meeting). The basics were $1800 for the full play pass. The surcharge went from $800 to $900 and a $1 increase ($5 to $6 in the summer and $7 to $8 in the high season) and the daily walk-on rate is suggested to be raised by $4 from $35 to $39. They kept the non-resident pass, changing it to $3250 and no golf car included. Not sure what is happening with small group tee times as it wasn't discussed.

There's lots more to share, but it will take some time to go into detail. The presentation by Kevin McCurdy was really good and it will be posted on the RCS website for anyone interested. Perhaps some on can/will post a link here once it has been. Also, a reminder, all committees can do is make recommendations, ultimately the board can accept, reject or modify it.

By the way, these are off the top of my head, so if i am incorrect, feel free to jump in and correct me.

 

Thanks for info Bill! Sounds positive. Edited this comment as I realized the GAC is meeting next Thursday the 19th.

 

I do not know exactly how the Golf Advisory Committee works so, perhaps, someone can fill me in on the details. The only places that I can find information in the Corporate Documents is Board Policy 17 (Golf) and 27 (Standing Committees). Apparently each golf course elects three men and three women to a greens committee. Each of these committees elect one man and one woman to the Golf Advisory Committee. People can sign up to run for the Greens Committees. If there are more people interested than there are slots, an election is held at the pro shop.

I am curious as to when these elections are held because I don't ever recall getting an email or seeing a poster for these elections. Can I vote at only one golf course or at each one? Does anyone know where I can find out more information? I think this is important to know since the Golf Advisory Committee makes recommendations to the Board of Directors.

 

Someone at the last Exchange asked about this and if I recall he was not happy with the answer he received from a board member.

 

The golf advisory committee (GAC) is made up of two members (male and female) from each of the golf courses and one member each of the Men's Golf Association and the Women's Golf Association. To become a member you have to serve on the greens committee, or in another capacity within the course you are coming from. The shit hit the fan over this because Director Darbut just started putting golfers on the committee. The speculation was it he wnated to be able to add enough committee members to control the vote outcome. No idea how accurate that is, but for sure, that was what the stink was about at the last meeting.

 

I get all that, Bill. I still don't know when the elections are held for the Greens committees and which golf courses I can vote at. One or all?

 

I wasn't thinking of running. Not only do I not know very many people, including golfers, but most of those I know are renegades like me! LOLl I just like to understand how things are run. Fortunately the GAC members can only serve two three year terms so there is reasonable turnover. When I return, I will try to make it a point to attend their meetings. For some reason, the minutes of their meetings don't get posted very quickly. In fact none of the committees' minutes are readily available. It's October 17th and there are no minutes on the website for any meetings in October. Surely there are some committees meeting.

 

Thanks, I have read the minutes from their September meeting. I am hoping to see the ones from their October 12th meeting where Kevin gave his presentation.

 

Each course has a greens committee made up of the following. Rep from women's and men's league from that course. Commonly their league VP. Head of rangers. Supervisor of groundkeepers and Duthu. There is no voting. Then two members (one female, one male) volunteer from that committee goes to GAC. SC has two women's golf assoc. One for 18 hole leagues and one for 9 hole leagues. Men's league only has one association. Women's associations are made up of the Presidents from each courses league. The President from each of the three associations attends the GAC. Hope that clears up some questions. I do understand the financial frustration from non golfers but get a bit defensive with some of the gossip and misinformation some non golfers are spreading. I appreciate you Bill in filling in with factual data/information.

 

Thanks, JRP. I just received the minutes from my ladies golf association resigned and the position is now vacant. No reason given.

 

Hey JRP, welcome. Appreciate your cleanup on how they arrive at GAC. I knew it was via filling positions but not sure who or how. I know a lot of the frustration of late has come as a board member just wanted to stick 8 or more golfers on the committee to slant the vote. The structure has worked for a long time; the only reason to try and change it is to rest control away from the caretakers and hand it off to the hand-picked chosen few.

That's just wrong on so many levels.

 

Starting to see that the RCSC board is filled with members who have personal agendas vs representing ALL concerns of Suncity. Sad.

 

Not sure i agree with that assessment. The easiest argument to make is the push for more pickleball courts, but realistically we need more courts, no question when compared to the per capita. If data matters, then fighting for something based on it makes for an interesting debate.

 

Enclose Marinette and air condition it. Biggest expense is A/C. Indoor courts are already primed for enclosure. That said you would free up courts for afternoon use. Empty in afternoon during summer now. I don't agree with more courts. Repurpose some of the tennis courts. Where is the real estate for more courts? Add some to MV, which is already a non stop debate to upgrade that facility. What about the needs of the softball facility? If a board member is trying to load board with golfers how is that not a personal agenda? This is the part where I get defensive. When people complain about supporting a sport they don't participate in. We all pay a yearly rec fee. I am happy to do that to keep up rec centers I very rarely use. I am a golfer. Not a bowler, not a pickleball player, not a swimmer. I pay additional fees to golf. The only other thing charged is bowling. The pools cost money to maintain. Why do we not charge to use those? Because the rec fee supports them. I support reasonable raises in golf fees. I support getting rid of non resident passes. I don't support losing any courses (which can't be done anyway). It's a difficult task to please everyone. But a board needs to be mindful of allocating resources to serve everyone equally.

 

There's no reason for anyone to know or understand this unless they have been involved with county codes and parking restrictions. Sun City was built before they were and issue and all of our centers are grandfathered, unless or until we rebuild them. My first exposure was at Fairway when it was torn down for the remodel and the county informed the RCSC the amount of covered space they were building required more parking than they had available. If memory serves me, the solution came from parking lots on Peoria Ave between the east/west traffic flow.

The next time it was mentioned was when i asked the same question you did JRP; "why not just enclose the Marinette PB courts?" The answer was if we enclosed it, we would need 140 more parking spots at Marinette. Apparently anything under-roof is accounted for whether it's pickleball or theater (which makes no sense). The Marinette pickleball pavilion is 30,000 square feet. Someone has suggested there my be a variance available, but no one to date has proven it.

On Monday the SAC video will be posted and the first half the video was valuable, the second half left me scratching my head. I know and respect the guys making their pitch, it simply wasn't feasible. The suggestion to enclose the 15 pickleball courts they want at Mountain View would add your under-roof sq footage by something just under 40,000 sq ft (nearly twice Marinette) which means 200 plus more parking spaces. Then throw in the second floor fitness area and you've got another 8000 sq feet.

It takes the price tag from 25 million to well over 40 million and the proposed solution i heard was just build a big parking garage. Those have been calculated by others before me and flat space parking is way cheaper than multi level buildings with ramps (i've heard projections that are as much as 5x the per parking space rate. The math simply doesn't work.

We do agree on this JRP: Every amenity we have needs to be valued equally. If there is one group who has been left out of the discussion/equation are those who physically aren't able to swim, workout, play any of the many sports and need a more sedated way of existence. Clearly clubs fill some of those roles, but not all of them. A nice performing arts venue would be a real plus, if we could ensure it was used effectively.

 

My vision was for a Performing Arts Center at Lakeview overlooking the lake and include an art gallery but I am starting to realize that is probably too expensive for the financial position we are currently in. We need to be careful not to build a glorious building that sits empty 75% of the time. Plus the Players have waited long enough. If they are satisfied with something at MV, we should probably do it. Just so they realize that this is what they will live with for a very long time. No complaining that it is too small or doesn't meet their needs. Too bad it isn't more centrally located.

I also think pickleball courts need to be retained at MV. I believe those are the only ones south of Grand because Oakview, Grand, and Fairway don't have any. It would be a long way for people in Phase 1 to travel to Marinette for pickleball time just like it will be a drive for people in Phase 3 to drive to a PAC at MV.

I just had a new thought. Yes, my brain cell does fire now and then! Why don't we look at locating new pickleball courts at South Golf Course? There should be plenty of space but not sure how it would work. It might be solving two problems at once, more pickleball courts and less grass to convert to desert landscaping. May need to make some changes to some of the holes. Just a thought. Has that idea been explored before?

 

You folks need to quit dreaming and get down to reality and live in the here and now with an eye toward the future. It’s time to realize that you are a minimum of a decade away from a PAC and how many of these proponents will even be around to enjoy it? Additionally, how many new live theaters are presently in the works for the valley? Start looking at who is going to look at moving here, not what your parents did.

 

I’ve heard the theaters are quite popular in the valley. You have got tunnel vision, like many others. Any options Larry? SAC is for strategic alternatives!