Sun City is like a jig saw puzzle, to make a complete picture, all of the pieces should fit together. DEVCO understood that concept; it took a few years, but they came to understand without a local city body of government, it was up to the residents to take ownership. The really great news about it was, they were more than up to the task. Within the first two years, there were three organizations created; one for the home owners and one for each of the two rec centers (Community Center and Town Hall). The interesting aspect was Sun City was built around a "new active way of life." DEVCO initially sold that lifestyle as being one where everyone moved here and played their lives away. It was a hedonistic approach sold to an aging population who were hard workers and now it was time to just enjoy the fruits of their labor. As time flew by, many of the residents found they needed more than hitting a golf ball, lazing by the pool or sharing cocktails with friends at parties and dances. They created dozens of local organizations and even more civic organizations that provided services that didn't exist because we weren't a city. They supported and volunteered on boards and gave back millions of hours a year to keep Sun City affordable and maintain a lifestyle that was unique to Sun City (and Sun City West when it opened). In the early 80's when DEVCO left, ownership increased. In the 1981 RCSC election, there were a dozen candidates, each with their own stated platform. In 1981, 27,000 plus members returned ballots regarding the purchase of the Sun Bowl. In 1983, 24,500 members voted on whether to allow smoking in club rooms and at meetings. In 1998 and into 1999, the RCSC board of directors made what i have argued was the "most significant action every taken in the RCSC's history." By the way, i think it still is, 24 years later. Passing the Preservation and Improvement Fund (PIF) was what saved Sun City from collapsing from within. More on that later. By 2006, the "Baby Boomers" were becoming the new wave of home buyers. They were different than the "Greatest Generation." There's little value in assessing those differences here, there are volumes written on the subject for anyone interested. That shift in 2006, caused the board to look at the future differently. The general managers over the first 45 years were in charge of the day to day operations. They seldom lasted more than 10 years and in some cases, they moved on in less than 5 years. And while they could add their thoughts or suggestions to the board of directors, the principal drivers of the RCSC was the board of directors, the committees and the membership. That equation changed starting around 2008. The board did a 100% turnover by 2009 and the new GM had assumed far more responsibilities and control. With each passing year, the board relinquished more and more as they saw her as the person hired to make those choices. Seldom was she challenged or questioned; while some hated us calling it a "rubber stamp," it was exactly that. Let me be clear, this thread won't be about what was, but it will be about what currently is and what needs to change, and i think where we are from a budget and finance committee, it will help define and explain why what happened in 2006-2022 was so destructive over the long run. Let me summarize it this way: I've long written and argued Sun City was "a sum total of its parts." For the first 45 years both DEVCO and community leaders and members worked tirelessly to tie all of the pieces of the community together. The logic was simple to grasp; without a local city government, the community and the various organizations had to work in some sort of mutually comfortable and beneficial sense of belonging. It was driven by need, for the community to survive and flourish, no one entity could stand alone; ignoring the others. The reality is the RCSC was the one organization with the most resources and the best reach/access to every member. An unspoken decision was made to recreate the RCSC into a wholly different structure; one where we moved away from other organizations and worse yet, created what i call a silo effect. By carving and creating independent bodies within the RCSC, each component worked singularly. Worse yet, what happened to outside organizations wasn't really a concern for the RCSC. To the former, former GM's credit, she did yearly raise funds to spend on a named outside organization. That was a good thing, but the community splintered as did the various departments within the RCSC. We'll dig into this as we go forward, but suffice to say, one only has to look at the ugly skirmish between the POSSE and the RCSC last year. Oddly the board told us they would address it quickly which took some 6 months to resolve. The other issue that is so glaring was the revelations where we were from a technology standpoint. That department cut across every segment of the RCSC, and yet not a single peep was heard until the stuff hit the fan, and we found out we were 15 years behind the times. Now, as we start digging into our financials, is anyone surprised we are where we are? Yes, we have a lot of money sitting there, but the truth is, we have let way too much stuff go and what is in the bank won't cover the myriad of issues we face. Don't panic, there are answers and solutions, most coming from the membership has just recently begun to get involved and pay attention. The path forward is obvious and we are off to a great start. The only question is; can we stay on it?
And most people start building the puzzle by assembling the border first. The "border" of the Sun City puzzle is exactly what you said Bill. It's the foundational principle of our existence and up to the residents to take ownership and provide guidance and participation. I believe we're on the road back but we must remain diligent and involved because we're only ever one-year away of electing 3 board members who may not comply!
I know folks get tired of my recanting the past, but the reality is, most people living in Sun City now, didn't live here before 2006. All of which can be reduced to this simple statement of fact: What you don't know, you don't know. I would argue it was one of the reasons the former, former GM ran from our history, but who knows, maybe she was just more focused on rebranding and recreating Sun City to fit her vision. Which would have been fine if she had offered the members the choice to decide. She didn't. Rather that waste a lot of time on what i mean by the "silo effect," let me tell you how life used to be. RCSC committee's played a critical role in the decision making process. Their recommendations were often the basis for the choices the board made. Even after 2006, while some committees were eliminated, their presence was still obvious. Even when i started serving on the board (2012) committee reports at membership meetings were the norm. In conjunction with that, each board member served as a liaison to the various organizations and monthly reports were still standard fare. Everyone was kept abreast of what was going on locally. In addition, there were more face to face gatherings between members and the board. We used to hold two (what we call now an exchange) monthly meetings at the Lakeview social halls. They were pretty informal and the discussions between the members and the board were wide open. Better yet, if there were hot button issues, the membership turned out in force. Following those twice a month meetings we (the board and GM) would immediately attend a board workshop where we often argued and debated our direction. At that time in 2012, there was the monthly board meeting and along with the quarterly membership meetings. We discontinued those because by then the quorum had been changed to 1250 and we were never going to meet the requirement. The point here is this: The gradual changes made following 2006 became more extreme and the flow of information between committees, organizations, members and the board evolved to a point where the interactions were dramatically reduced. Those changes took the sense of community we had been built around and we became an organization segmented and fractured. I have argued it was intentional, and the more i look back, the more i see exactly how and why we got here. When the shared information of what is going is lost, the ability or opportunity is diminished to resolve the problems or issues. Think about it this way: Pick a topic: Technology, golf, budget and finance, communication or even something as simple as comment cards; someone tell me how much they knew about what was going on with any of them? When you closet away the challenges and difficulties, most members were clueless. The old adage fits perfectly; "out of sight, out of mind." It wasn't until the shit hit the fan and Karen was fired where there was suddenly interest in where we were and more importantly where we were headed. When we formed the Sun City Advocates, we were attacked as subversives trying to destroy the community. Our mantra was: "Communicate, Educate and Participate." Freaking terrifying eh? God forbid the members should know what was going on. 2023 has been interesting to follow. The board got off to a tumultuous start with 3 board members quitting and the president and the vice president stepping down for health reasons (they stayed on the board). Since then, the board has kicked it into high gear and returned to our roots. Transparency has become the standard operating procedure, though they could improve on the budget and finance committees exposure. The Strategic Alternative Committee (SAC) has been wide open and everything is hanging out there. The social media aspect of the RCSC is about 100% better in the past 4 months and the releases (blast emails) have actually contained information worth reading. Plus, the financials, while still a work in progress, have become easier to read and understand. The board has made it abundantly clear, it is not business as usual. I chided them at the end of my first budget and finance committee meeting to be recording them so members had access. It still hasn't happened, though i think they are starting to produce better committee reports. The meeting at Mountain View on the budget was a good first step. While there were less than 100 members in the room, the video has had 757 views since it was posted two days ago. We know the members care when it affects their pocketbook. This has gotten long and i want to get back to the budget and finance committee and the MV meeting. Some things were said, some weren't. I've always argued members are the best resource we have in Sun City when it comes to problem solving and the new board has begun to tap into them. That said, we also know the penchant is for the board to believe they know better. Here's the most daunting aspect for the board; by asking the members to get involved, are you willing to pay attention to what they say? Stay tuned as tomorrow we'll explore an idea that has enormous merit.
"The social media aspect of the RCSC is about 100% better in the past 4 months..." You're welcome. I knew the Board wanted social media taken to the next level but my priority was the Visitors Center. I personally could not do both. Wishing Sun City my best.
Hey Polly, hope all is well. I'm a big subscriber to the philosophy it takes a village. The whole "silo effect" was just one of the challenges you faced. The RCSC has enormous potential and has struggled to find its footing because the goal was to become just like all the other communities rather than focusing on what we were and how we were built. You saw up close and personal how well the membership responded to a poorly written questionnaire and the subsequent focus and working groups. Now if we can rebuild a communication committee to work in concert promoting the community and all it offers, the future is bright. The challenge now is we are struggling with everything that has happened and the concept we could just kick the can down the road. That never works, and in fact most often compounds the problem. Within the next several months the board (and the membership) are all facing huge questions that need be answered. Think about all of this as we move forward and then ask yourself would you want to be one of the nine having to make those decisions? Here's a short list of what i see as the community's priorities: 1). Hiring the right general manager. 2). Sorting out the Mountain View remodel (SAC). 3). The 20 million dollar deferred maintenance dilemma. 4). A 40% turnover of the employees because of low hourly rates in key positions. 5). The mess with golf and an outdated concept where our success was measured by numbers of rounds played. 6). The technology boondoggle and trying to play catch-up with a supply chain that cannot begin to get it current. Several of these items are intertwined and directly tied to the budget. Some are freestanding and are a one-off. While i could sort them out, the reality is each problem comes back to our biggest challenge: How do we get members involved enough to understand exactly where we are? No easy task and frankly why i would include the significance of recreating a communication committee. All of which leads me to comments i heard at the budget and finance committee and frankly they were brilliant. Before i go there though, i am delighted by the way the B&F committee is approaching the mess they have uncovered. Kevin McCurdy has been a welcome change and the committee chairs have taken off the blinders and are considering every option. If you listened closely to the MV meeting the other day, you heard Director Fast mention one of those ideas; melding all revenue into one general account. In fact he said it twice there and has said it at Budget and Finance committee meetings. For anyone who has followed my writings and rantings over the years, you know i think passing the PIF in 1999 was the most significant action ever taken by the RCSC. For me, it is sacred ground, the Holy Grail of the Sun City way of life. It's a pot of money that allows both boards and members to dream and envision the changes the community needs make years down the road. The idea of lumping it all together and using it partially for "Capital projects" and partially for running the day to day operations is a MASSIVE departure from where we are. It's worth a discussion, but the reality is boards come and boards go. Whatever the value today could be compromised down the road. That said, one of the comments made in the B&F meetings was far more attractive to me. I'm not sure who proposed it, because it was made before i started going. When i heard it, i immediately saw the potential to solve some of our problems and to maintain the safeguards built around the PIF. We know the problems we had once the document guardrails were removed. Hell, i've written volumes on it. We know Sun City West increased their version of PIF to $5ooo. We also know we also pretty much match one another's fee. Assuming we were to move to 5k, the suggestion was made we allocate that $1000 portion of the bump to fund capital projects and $4000 stays going into the PIF. That way we maintain the ability to fund projects that need large infusions of money and also support the increasing expenses that come from new buildings and the every growing costs we incur from new equipment. It is the best of both worlds and it preserves the safeguards put in place years ago. For those of you who don't know, Sun City has averaged 2000 homes sales a year. This year we will be a little below that, but i suspect once we get through the 2024 elections things will return to a better place (irrespective of who wins). For simplicity purposes, the math works out this way at 2000 home sales: 8 million dollars a year to PIF and 2 million dollars to this new capital projects fund. Those numbers don't eliminate the need for an increase in lot assessments this year, but they do soften the blow. We'll dig into that in a coming post. Think about it and tell me why this is a bad idea?
Thanks Bill for this info! First I have not heard much about specific options from the B$F committee. I won’t say the idea is a bad idea, but I would like to hear all options. What are they? Not sure we should place so much of the solution on new homeowners and current homeowners. The entire budget should be put forth first. For instance, the $525 yearly assessment times 30,000 households is about $16 million. Over 5 years is $80 million. Add to that about $15 million in unrestricted monies currently. Close to $100 million total for five years. Lot of money in just the operation and maintenance funds. Will this amount not cover our bills for five years? Other options? I’m sure more options are available. Perhaps suspending operations at a golf course or two. Or closing a rec center or two for one or two years. Why not? We all may need to make some sacrifices, even golf of all groups. If we cannot afford water bills, quit using the water. Not pleasent options, but options nonetheless. So my point would be get everything on the table for everyone to see and hear. Until then, we are operating in a vacuum. Just a few thoughts.
So the good news Tom is we aren't broke and we aren't going broke. The bad news is we have a lot of catching up to do. The beauty of a 5 year plan is we can spread it out over that time period by prioritizing and taking care of the the most important things first. We also have the "carry-forward" monies as well as the rainy day funds. I have only been to three meetings and i'm not a numbers guy. I can read budgets when i have to but it certainly isn't something i get excited by. The beauty of the coming process is the board will be asking the community to pay attention and get involved. It's exactly how it should work and why last year's election was so important to our future. I think you'll find the process both refreshing and encouraging...and at times frustrating. We spent too many years ignoring problems rather than dealing with them. It can't be the same old same old, and for that i am eternally grateful to the 9 members of the board for doing what needed to be done.
You've mentioned water in several posts. Are you under the impression the golf courses keep using fresh water? Next time Epcor has a meeting in Sun City you may want to attend. People want expanded hours for the rec centers. Do you realize that you don't just lock them up or just close a golf course. There will still be labor costs while they are closed. It also won't be a good look to potential buyers. So much for our current home values. In November of 2024 we will be voting on an $18 minimum wage with inflation adjustments every year. Add increasing the wages here to competitive amounts and we are looking at lots of money, with everything the RCSC spends money on going up. The only remedy is raising fees! All fees! PIF, Rec Fees, Golf Fees, Bowling Fees, and maybe even start some new ones or bring some back like Trail Fees. After 40+ years of condo ownership I see what deferred maintenance can do. I also know you have to charge what you need, and no other factors can be involved.
I mention water because the landscaping conversion requirement is based on water usage. Obviously a problem for golf courses in Arizona. For Sun City I heard a $20 million dollar problem. Drought conditions I believe requires some type of conservation measures. I hope the different grass experiment works. My point on closing amenities was seeing the idea as an option. Solution to money problem. No problem if you disagree. Let me read about some solutions and options. Haven’t read many yet. Or I guess you see no problem. I think the solution may come from the golfing community.
Good discussion and really my only point is to get RCSC member/owners to understand there are problems/issues they need to be invested in. I've never tried to pass myself off as a budget expert and frankly it isn't a topic i am passionate about. That said, as a member/owner i am intrigued by some of the items being discussed on the budget and finance committee. I haven't seen all of the information shared with the committee, just what they have shown on the screen. That's all to come later to anyone who attends. One of the financial topics that is going to get a lot of attention this fall is golf. I almost cringe whenever i write anything about it. All too often i have golfers tell me i hate golf. That's not the case, nor has it ever been. They hate when i tell them the courses were purchased by the RCSC with a commitment to be self-sufficient. The reality is they haven't been in a long and time and in all likelihood, they never will be. The bigger problem with golf is, most RCSC members know little or nothing about it. Whenever i start writing, i can almost see their eyes glaze over. Here's some simple facts: When Sun City was first being built, DEVCO projected the percentage of residents playing golf to be between 10-15%. They were spot on. The most recent figures we have been told is there are somewhere around 4200 residents who golf; which would put us around 12% of the population who are golfers (including privilege card holders). That's still a large contingency group of residents who enjoy the game, even larger than pickleball. That said, the numbers inside the numbers get far more interesting. I won't get into the nuance of passes and daily play because it's confusing to anyone unless they have played and understand how it works. The data that matters was a subject that one of the board members went into detail on in the Independent newspaper this week If you haven't read it, you should. In fact, when you go to the Exchange meeting in September, i've already heard one group of golfers is going to show up in force and raise a stink. So we are clear, out of those 4200 Sun City residents who golf, the ones angry and screaming the loudest comprise the smallest percentage of the golfing community. The 455 full play pass purchasers are apparently livid about the idea they should be paying more than what they have been paying. Think about it in these terms: Suppose you go to your favorite coffee shop every Saturday and pay $10 for a large cup of coffee. Then imagine, another group of coffee lovers that buys an unlimited pass for that same large cup of joe, but their cost is $1 per cup. They write a check each year for the right to do this, but when you consider they come in 4-6 times a week, the cost of that coffee is actually being subsidized by all of the $10 weekly walk-in buyers paying $10. While on its face it is a poor analogy, it is the exact thing that is happening in Sun City. In fact, the small group of full play pass buyers haven't had an increase since 2017, while the daily walk-in users have had an increase year after year. Then add to the mix, those full play pass buyers started bringing in their friends from outside Sun City to play with them and expected they get special pricing as well. Look, this isn't an easy fix, because Sun City built a structure where "cheap golf" (especially for a small minority) was the essence of our existence. We judged success by the numbers of rounds played, not revenue generated. We (Sun City and the RCSC membership) can no longer do business that way. The golf advisory committee is trying to sort it out, but we know some of the full play pass buyers have been trying to control the system without regard to the larger golf population.
One of the reasons i am doing these types of articles is to stimulate interest in the process and concept of self-governance. After more than 15 years of telling the members to just stay home and have fun, we have become victims of our stupidity. Nope, i don't buy into "victim-hood," i buy into the importance of understanding how and why we got here. It wasn't an accident, it was a belief that those running the show knew better than the members did. Think about it this way, and be honest: Would the members allowed the RCSC to fall 15 years behind with their technology? Would the members have allowed full play golf passes to be sold to non-members for less money than a member was paying AND allowed them to take tee times ahead of members? Would members have allowed the golf equipment to become outdated and not usable? Would members have built a club space where there was no air conditioning in the summer months and telling the members to get by with a swamp cooler that doesn't work in the summer months and temperatures explode to triple digits? Would members have put off replacing equipment years past its useful life? Would members have allowed the Mountain View rec center become what it is today? I can play this game all day long, because when one person becomes the sole arbiter of what our needs are, we need to pray that person has the wisdom of Solomon and is all knowing. That person simply doesn't exist, nor should we ever have expected them to. It wasn't fair to them and it certainly wasn't fair to all of us. Sun City, during those first 18 years, was built by DEVCO, but every step of the way, the members took ownership. They weren't afraid of the responsibilities that came along with it and in fact, the RCSC (in those formative years) nurtured it. That partnership was strong and was built on trust and a belief the vast majority living here wanted what was best for the community. They simply lost trust in the membership, a tragic error. The meeting next is on Monday, September 11 at 9 am in the Sun Dial auditorium. It will showcase how far removed we are from a community that was built around the common good to one where the mantra is "i want what i want when i want it." My good friend Ben Roloff likes to summarize Sun City's biggest challenge is when members think only in terms of "mine." Watch as the 455 full play pass buyers/golfers that have it all, insist they keep it all and you should help pay for it. If you weren't planning on going, you should show up for no other reason than to see if i am right, or wrong.
When I read about the outdated golf course maintenance equipment and how we underpay the staff using that equipment to the point where they leave for other jobs, I thought of how stupid it was to put $4 Million into a golf building at Lakes Golf Courses. Really? To house old, dilapidated equipment? Surely it would have been wiser to construct a less expensive building, put some of the $4 Million into the equipment and decent wages. BTW, I attended the Open House there and saw how the equipment was stored and how dirty it had been put away. Everyone needs to understand that if we take care of things properly, they will last much longer. Now we have a Taj Mahal Golf Maintenance Building, that a neighbor of that building described as looking like a prison with the walls surrounding it, a delayed softball storage building, a promised dog training facility that doesn't even show up on the PIF budget sheet, and the Players Club still waiting for a determination of a Performing Arts Center. I think the maintenance building was a folly and delayed more important projects. While I am on the subject, there are two more golf maintenance buildings on the PIF budget list, one for $2 Million. Perhaps those can wait and possibly be scaled down in cost.
That old guard strategy was by design. Maintenance budgets deviously barely tapped creating high cost facility crises then qualified for PIF funding. Dereliction of duty, inexcusable!! The Pied Pipers are finally gone…leaving much needed reform, clean-up and expense. Thanks to all who have worked diligently through the summer to guide us to this important time of decisions. WE CAN DO IT!
We can and we/they will. It will just be a long slow process. Organizational structure was built to perform in that manner; which is exactly why it was changed. Those running the show didn't have the patience or the willingness to let the membership in. There was a sense they knew better and when we reflect back, the question you have to ask yourselves is this; "did they." Look, i have a bias, but for others who weren't living through the changes, when you look objectively where we are as a community, i suspect most of them would come to the same conclusion...it simply didn't work very well. I could tick off a half a dozen different areas to critique, but the one that still rubs me raw, was the selection process for the most recently departed GM. Former board member Rich Hoffer (who was involved in his hiring) has freely stated; "he wasn't the best candidate for the job." Rich and i have had our disagreements over things, but i often respected his judgement. In looking back, it has been made painfully obvious, the former, former GM wanted the recently departed GM to replace her. It's also why so many of the existing board members went along with her, the logic of protecting one another appeared to be the one common denominator many of them shared. Loyalty in dogs is a good thing. Loyalty to an organization's leadership is only an asset when one can fairly and openly critique decisions and ultimately outcomes. Selling that concept that being critical as being a breach of a board members fiduciary responsibilities was the mantra that was fed time and time again. Our Bylaws were re-written to help shape that narrative and became the ultimate defense when anyone even thought about speaking out. Ultimately, the breach of their fiduciary responsibilities was most likely triggered when they failed to speak about the leadership's failures. Loyalty to an organization with the singular purpose to serve the membership's best interests, would demand the board speak out. They couldn't even bring themselves to objectively look at what was going on. That's not how the process of self-governance is supposed to work. There's so much work that need be done, but as i have written; prioritize, prioritize and then prioritize some more. It's that simple.
Interesting Bill! The question that enters my brain is this. Was there a breach of fiduciary responsibility or a failure of the process to call out the decision making in a legitimate way? Or possibly much more to the story we are not yet aware of, due to lack of info? More to be revealed?
My opinion, the lack of fiduciary responsibility has led us to this point. The Board's actions over the last 15 years have been contributing factors to the situation we find ourselves in. Examples: * lack of oversight of budgets resulting in a current $20 million capital expenditures needs list; a Finance & Budget Committee that meets 3 times a year and recommends a 20+million budget in less than 2 hours without any previous discussion or review is incomprehensible. And Board adoption with little review or debate is also lack of due diligence. *denial of access to members of budget information until after adoption lacks transparency and prohibits members ability to provide input or question priorities. Members of a NP are required to have access to financial information. There are no secrets. *the list is way too long of the Board's failure to oversee or challenge management's decisions, lack of responses/fix to long delays for repairs or outstanding member issues, major cost over-runs or getting direct answers about why we have "carry foward" yet so many projects not finished. *failure to work WITH and on BEHALF of the membership to BENEFIT the membership, which is the purpose of RCSC *allowing the rewriting of bylaws and policies that contributed to no annual meeting for a decade, in effect not allowing members the right to vote These examples all fall under a director's duty of care, responsibility to protect the assets and represent all the members of the corporation. It's a culmination of years of just letting management do the work, cutting back (or eliminating) committees, ignoring or telling members "we've got this, just have fun." It's really not how a tax exempt organization - the IRS does have rules. Do they matter. If someone wants to make it an issue, it might. It's happened to some large NPs that have ignored its members. Bill Pearson has said it over and over. It happens when members aren't involved, for whatever reason. It also happens when Board members do not receive proper orientation and proper training - yes, it's a thing. Unless members have been in the NP field it's a learning curve. It's different than the corporate world. On-going training is critical and I hope it becomes part of the new policies. Dysfunction kills organizations. We have a new GM joining the team. My hope is the Board and management get it right. And a community that is self-governed has different challenges. There is no central government to lead or depend on. The major organizations MUST work together. RCSC became an island; however, it's role should be a major community partner; not an outsider or an afterthought. It has more resources, more manpower, and the potential for more volunteers. Bottom line - fiduciary responsibility means Board members must make every attempt and take every opportunity to act to protect the assets, the interests of the members, and not act in their self-interests.
Well stated, Linda! I want to add a footnote to the budget process. Last year, Management included a $25+ lot assessment increase to the budget but didn't directly involve or inform the RCSC Members. In fact, those that attended the Budget meeting were told they shouldn't mention it outside the meeting. That is NOT the way to conduct business in a nonprofit! So happy things are on a better track!
“The major organizations MUST work together. RCSC became an island; however, it's role should be a major community partner; not an outsider or an afterthought. It has more resources, more manpower, and the potential for more volunteers.” Linda McIntyre RCSC became the BIG BULLY on the block with a small gang to help guard its territory. Now RCSC is embracing the opportunity and responsibility to serve our Sun City community while “fixing” the damage left by the old gang and their leaders. Thank you, THANK YOU! Are we going to help with a willing-YES when asked? Maybe volunteer without being asked?