Let's get the pleasantries out of the way and then we can plow forward. Lat week on Facebook's Sun City Chat Arizona, several threads evolved into discussion over the "best" place to live in SC. I've been reading comments like these and responding to them since nearly the first day we arrived. When asked why we live where we live in Phase 2, my response has never wavered; Phase 2, because we are in the middle of the community and i can get to phase 1 or phase 3 in nearly the same amount of time. That's purely a matter of logistics. The deeper question of where to live is really a more intimate issue that runs the gamut. But before i go there, i have to tell you this is a long article and deeply personal so if you hate to read, stop now and save yourself wasting time on something that matters not to many. This will take a while, so bare with me as i tee it up. My wife Lori and i lived our first 55 years in and around St. Paul MN. With no kids but lots of dogs, our lives were simple enough. We both worked full time in good union jobs with good benefits. Those benefits would allow us the ability to retire early; 55. We escaped the MN winters every year on a cruise, mostly out of Florida. Sometimes Miami, most often Fort Lauderdale. That's only pertinent because we thought it was where we would live in retirement. It's also where i found a curious enlightenment. Walking through a small, gift shop we came across a sign hanging behind the proprietor that read: "Enjoy the journey, not the destination." I know that sounds crazy, but as a classic A type personality, i was always in a hurry to find my next big thing accomplishment. I simply never took the time to enjoy what was happening in real time around me. I wasn't cured immediately, and sadly for me, i went for years never taking the time to smell the roses or even appreciate how good life was. I was always tilting at windmills. My dad on the other hand was a father of 5 kids, worked full time as an engineer on the Burlington Northern railroad and never made a lot of money. On top of that he worked really crappy hours on the extra-board and was called in all hours of the day and night. Mom was his high school sweetheart and they married a year after graduation. She never worked outside the house other than the occasional foray into Mary Kay cosmetics or Park Lane jewelry. My dads parents were both raging alcoholics and both died really young from alcoholism. Mom's parents were from good old Swedish stock, lived long and well and it was where we gathered every Sunday. No one from either side of the family had money, all lived within their means and worked hard for what they had. That only matters (being drunks) because his parents taught him how to drink to excess and in turn, he taught me. There's always been a debate amongst drunks if being one was hereditary; i never engaged in it. Being a drunk is simply a nasty way to live and punishes the people we love the most. Worse yet, we all too often don't know or even care. The good news is, i sobered up in 1976 and i helped dad get into treatment and become sober some 8 or 9 years later. He died sober and happy. One of the last times i saw him alive, he was at Boswell Hospital, and on a Sunday morning he asked me to do two things; take care of mom and let his friends and co-workers know he had passed (he was gone 4 days later). It was a moment i will never forget. Dad was angry a good portion of his life. Clearly not in death as he accepted it and was ready to go. Damn, i hate crying when i type. The whole point of all of this is exactly why i love Sun City. When my folks moved here in the mid 90's, they were both retired and both bored out of their minds in Minnesota. The cost to golf or do all the fun things they enjoyed had spiraled and they were always careful with what money they had. Winters were a bitch and their big escape was short trips to Vegas. When they found Sun City an entire new way of life opened to them. Playing golf together was a weekly occurrence. Mom also played on Tuesday's at Willow Creek and became the ladies photographer (i still chuckle at that because she took horrible pictures). They worked out and swam, mostly at the Sun Dial pool and dad loved to walk the bare bones walking track at Marinette (way before the remodel). They loved their lives here and dad became what every child wants their parents to be; happy together as they age. Mom was always happier than dad and they both enjoyed much of what Sun City offered. Mom was a masters bridge player and played in several Sun City bridge clubs. When we first visited in 1998, i was mesmerized. The idea we would retire to Florida was gone in a heart beat once i saw what Sun City was and all it had to offer. We purchased our first Sun City home in 1999 and moved here full time in 2003. We never looked back. When dad died in 2006 and when mom died 10 years later, i was there to hold both their hands. It doesn't get any better than that. BTW, they are both in urns behind the glass at Sunland Memorial. Sorry for the personal story, but here's the thing; in all of the years we have lived here and all of the stories and interviews i have watched and read at the Museum, ours is not unique. Not even close. From the very beginning, those moving here have fallen in love with the community and all it had to offer. My folks story, our story is identical to tens of thousands of others. Most people love where they were born, in fact, back in the day, people seldom left their place of birth. What Webb/Boswell/Meeker built into Sun City was a sense of community that inspired a love affair of epic proportions. The experts told the company the concept would never work. It did better than anyone expected; it still is. This has gone on long enough, take a break and when i come back (after refilling my coffee cup), i will give you the rest of the story...and why it has mattered so much to me.
Let's continue because this too will be a touch convoluted until you reach the end. Anyone familiar with Del Webb's history knows he started as a union carpenter in California and worked his way into becoming the most prolific building contractor in the country. In addition he owned the New York Yankees for 20 years (1945-1964), winning 15 pennants and 10 world series. In 1947 the Taft-Hartley act was passed. It allowed unions and employers, to negotiate health care and retirement benefits into the settlements and write off costs as tax deductible expenses. Webb was smart enough to understand that when adding in social security benefits, retirees would suddenly have more disposable income. It was the game changer and one of the inspirations behind Sun City. So much so, that the first 5 years (1960-1964) the Del E Webb Development Corporation (DEVCO) targeted low to moderate income retirees. There's several early ads where they were touting buying and living in Sun City was as low as a "nickle a day." The 1962 promotional film The Beginning has a line where the family the couple are visiting turns to his friend and laughingly says;"they bought the most expensive home on the block and to be able to do that back where they came from, you would have had to be the town banker." Then he goes on to tell George, we get by on $400 a month. Everything about Sun City was built around a premise of affordability. Once Meeker took the reigns in 1965, he quickly came to realize, everyone loved a bargain. Truth be told, lots of really wealthy retirees bought and moved into Sun City. It mattered not because there was no status differences between home ownership. Meeker said one of his greatest joys was the fact the least expensive garden court apartment was built directly across the street from the most expensive home built on one of our two lakes. It simply didn't matter. Let me digress a bit, yet again. I ran a union for a living. I never made more than $72,000. I had counterparts making and 2 and 3 times that. I always understood the 7500 members we represented were not highly paid. Some had great benefit packages and my hope was someday they too could retiree and enjoy the fruits of their labor. That was why Sun City was such an eye-opener for me. You didn't have to be rich or wealthy to live here. You still don't. We are one of the most affordable retirement communities in the nation. While costs have and are rising, retiring here isn't beyond the reach of many folks who are looking for their place in the sun. What Webb started was predicated on a vision for a better way to live for seniors. That goal has stood the test of time and it might be the single most attractive piece of the Sun City puzzle for me. There's a 1000 other age restricted communities out there, all far more expensive; most out of reach for many of us. While others love their golf, their clubs, their pool, their neighborhood, their churches, the fact health care delivery services are within a shout out or a hundred other valid reasons: I especially love the fact average working men and women of average means can buy into this amazing community and enjoy everything that has been part of the Sun City new way of life. You don't have to be rich to live here. It's why i get squeamish when i hear chat members tell others one part of the community is better or worse than another. In my mind, there's no such thing. To be clear, i do caution people looking at a place i wouldn't live. I don't want to abut busy streets where ingress and egress is too easy or where the traffic noise is too loud (no matter what phase it is in). I am also smart enough to know that those factors should dictate the property value they are looking at, and it reflects whatever the downside is and it may be exactly what makes that property fit into their budget. That's why i am almost fanatical that potential buyers use Realtors who know Sun City inside and out. There's too many carpetbagger Realtors who know absolutely nothing about the community and simply want the sale. The other piece of the puzzle that is often missed is what the buyer is looking for. Price is one component, the other is proximity to the things they enjoy doing. I find it easier to go roll bowls at Bell because it is 4 blocks from my house. I want to be close to the things i enjoy. It's a golf car thing, or for some, a walking thing. While some poo-poo phase 1, they have 4 rec centers (Grand, Oakmont, Fairway and Mountain View), they also have the softball field and the Sun Bowl along with 3 golf course options. Being blunt, i have been in home remodels in phase 1 that are drop dead gorgeous as those buying there got smoking deals and took the savings and did striking renovations. I've also been in homes that are near on vintage but the maintenance and upkeep gives them the look and feel of an awesome place to live. Newer isn't always better. Back when i first came and had just left my job and was still trapped in a mindset of promoting Sun City on how affordable it was, i often wrote it didn't matter if you bought a $25,000 vacation special behind Fry's (yes they were that cheap) or an amazing View Point lake property for under 200K (yes they were that cheap), you got exactly the same use of the same amenities and the incredible lifestyle that came with ownership in Sun City. BTW, i still feel that way, i simply think there are more important aspects affecting our future. Let me conclude this overlong commentary. Thanks to all those who stayed with me and apologize for dragging you along. There are things happening in this community that are affecting all of us. Some spout crime and how serious it is; truth be told, for the most part, they are crimes of opportunity. Theft is always the most obvious and has been for some time. Serious crimes against person are few and far between. Unfortunately across this country, all types of criminal activity are escalating. It's why i have been championing our return to that sense of community Sun City was built around and under; ownership by all of us living here; knowing your neighbors and watching out for them; pushing the RCSC to get up to speed on all things technology. The RCSC is the one organization that has the financial where-with-all to embrace community security and begin to take away those crimes of opportunity. It's also why i have been harping at SCHOA to become more aggressive in enforcement. There's been a couple of homes in phase 1 that have been taken over by people who had no business living there. Now we hear it's drifted into phase 2. They/we simply cannot afford to act like it's not a problem because it is. We've for too long ignored the communities problems and pretended as long as we are living here everything is okay. Those who came before us never accepted everything was okay when it wasn't. It simply doesn't matter if you live in Phase 1, Phase 2 or Phase 3, all of us bought our place in the sun to enjoy life but we also have the responsibility of maintaining it for those who come after us.
These encroachments affect not only our quality of life but the values of our properties! Let's not forget that Maricopa County has recently approved zoning on a 1.1 million dollar 10 client Group Home with 5 bedrooms and 6 bathrooms on View Point Lake. It's located at 13618 N. 103rd Ave. and currently on the market for sale. Kinda makes you wonder when SCHOA and the RCSC are going to provide some push-back? Yeah, yeah, I know, the RCSC has no control over housing but if this crap keeps on happening and more homes become nothing more than group homes, halfway houses and rentals, then who the heck is gonna want to move into that neighborhood especially when your next door neighbor is suddenly allowed to build a two story motorhome garage fully equipped with its own bathroom? A bathroom in a garage? There's got to be more to that than meets the eye! And why spend and build a $50-$60 thousand dollar garage when you can park your motorhome for $2 dollars a foot at the Sun Cities RV Compound? Tuesday morning, April 25th, at 9:00 o'clock SCHOA will be holding their monthly Board Meeting at 10401 W Coggins Dr. We need to start showing-up and expressing our concerns. We all signed Facilities Agreements when we purchased our homes, which holds us to the CC&R's, but it doesn't appear to me that those CC&R's are worth the paper they're written on!
Thanks for your stories, Bill. I find them interesting and enlightening. Sorry, I can't make the SCHOA meeting because Tuesday is Ladies Golf Day. However, I am glad that two RV's, that were not operational, have been removed from 108th and Cameo. One didn't even have a valid license plate. It took lots of complaining to SCHOA and MCSD to accomplish this. Neighbors felt threatened and the RV's were unsightly. There is a Maricopa County Ordinance that applies to these situations. I am glad that it was applied in this situation. If SC residents are aware of other violations, please contact SCHOA or MCSD.
I had a situation like yours but the result from MCSO was different. I was told that sometimes people forget to put the new stickers on. They also told me that as long as it moves a few feet that is good enough.
Just a quick reminder, the SCHOA meeting is this morning, Tuesday the 25th at 9 am. The address is 10401 W Coggins Dr, Sun City, AZ 85351.
I also love living in Sun City. Currently I have a house I am trying to sell. According to my agent the hardest nut to crack is other agents. You see, my house is in Phase I, just off 111th Ave. Unfortunately, 111th Ave has gotten very busy with all the trucks hauling dirt out of View Point Lake. But that's not all. Oh no, it is near Youngtown of all horrible places. Clearly spoken by someone who has never been to Youngtown and walked by the lake and visited their lovely parks and beautiful dog park. The house is on a stunning part of the North Golf course and in 5 years we have never had a bit of trouble. But the double scourge Phase I and Youngtown have made this adorable house sale a struggle. Agents discourage their clients from even looking at Phase I homes because they are in a "bad neighborhood." This is a community, not Disneyland. (Or The Villages. LOL)
I’ve observed former prominent realtors have abandoned all of Sun City, with the exception of the Nixon Group and Home Smart. Their signage, GONE! Their Sun City Independent weekly insert ads feature Sun City West and The Grand with maybe five Sun City homes! There are many for sale signs in Sun City with a variety of unfamiliar realtors. Our Sun City community must address this deteriorated realtor relationship. How?
We are still here and are absolutely committed to Sun City! Although we are newer to the community (4 years) we try to stay exclusively here. We promote the Museum, SCHOA, and are knowledgeable of RCSC facilities. Yes! We are HomeSmart, The Conrad Team (shameless plug)! We have noticed a lot of investor activity, seems there has been an influx of realtors that are out there and don't know our community and really just do not care that are giving out misinformation. We spend a lot of our time at open houses correcting that misinformation and backing it up with printed matter and general direction as to how to obtain more information. Realtors that aren't Sun City oriented are selling to underage people. We are shocked at what goes on here. If you can do anything: urge people to use Sun City Realtors. We are here, and intend to stay here!
“If you can do anything: urge people to use Sun City Realtors. We are here, and intend to stay here!” Thank you, Cheryl!
My agent, Jacqueline Black-Hogue (602-264-8400), Better Homes & Gardens Real Estate, has been amazing and so hard working. And she knows SC. But the realtor association scoffs at doing agent tours of Sun City homes for the agents. Maybe our homes sell for too low a price that agents don't want to waste their time. But not everyone can afford Fountain Hills. Realtors are selling us short.
There are realtor tours at least once a week Tuesday mornings and typically another every other Thursday. However you may be correct as these are not heavily attended. I for one love Sun City and we do our best to promote it. Yes, there are some homes that nay need updating, but I have found those to be heavily in demand. The homes here are well built and lend themselves to updating relatively easily. Most, although they may be dated in some cases, are very well maintained. What I do see happening is that there was a lot of investment buying in the past few years. A lot of bad flips, and a few just abandoned projects. It is sad to see the folks that sold their homes to someone that called them on the phone, only fir those homes to be held speculatively. A lot of that activity is what you are seeing with the out of area signs. Typically that was a speculative home and they are cutting their losses now. We saw so many homes being bought, nothing done to them, and then put back on the market for 50k more within weeks. It was crazy. Sun city will always be desirable as long as we keep a good range of homes. Some updated slightly, some redone completely, there are always people planning to become a part of this legacy!
Cheryl, thank you for sharing your professional insights and passion for our Sun City community. Grateful you’re here!
