It's Not Even About Golf Anymore?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Jun 30, 2022.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    One can only smile as the RCSC drifts along with new and improved agendas to help golfers who are angered by the outside play, take their eye off the ball. What shall we talk about; increasing the lot assessment for every member while allowing non-residents cheap golf? Giving golf cars away to members while increasing the fees to single women paying the full rate while never stepping on a golf course in their life? Bylaw rewrites that resolve nothing like what was proposed at last years membership meeting? How about this years membership meeting that will be nothing more than elaborate showcase for the 50k survey?

    You know what happens in golf when you take your eye off the ball...no different here.
     
    Linda McIntyre likes this.
  2. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    And the timeliness on this survey? It's a crunch. And what about snowbirds? Will there be enough publicity about this survey? We're in travel time and holiday season. Many don't arrive until between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Timing? The Board has their hands full. Is that the plan? Keep them distracted or so busy they don't have time to ask questions or analyze the budget? The snowbirds aren't in SC en masse so they can't be "interferring" with their ideas or opinions? Did I read that they expect only a 5% return on the survey? And we're paying 50k? And that's supposed to guide us in setting a plan for spending tens of millions of dollars to set the course for our future? Again, I say poppycock. Let's be practical for a minute. There really needs to be a lot of tough questions asked of the Board, Finance and Budget, the GM and how do members of LRPC feel about this?
     
    OneDayAtATime and FYI like this.
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I was reading yet again on another social media site, Nextdoor, where the writer was touting the fact golf was indeed paying for itself. It doesn't and in all likelihood, never will. I'm all for subsidizing it, within limits. I don't know what they should be, i've always argued golfers should self-police those decisions.

    This morning i ran into a long time former board member. He had spent 6 years on the board and is also a member of the budget and finance committee. He was stunned by the proposed lot assessment increase given the amount of cash the RCSC has on hand. Of even a bigger concern is the idea the RCSC management is letting non-members access our courses for less money than members pay. Plus he added, and letting them take our tee times is shameful.

    Unheard of back in the days he was on the board. Simply unheard of.
     
    eyesopen and Linda McIntyre like this.
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Someone mentioned to me Sun City West actually has rules regarding cheap outside (non-resident) play. I knew they sold a lot of non-resident tee times (25-30 %), but it always comes with this caveat being met:
    2.1). The General Manager, with Governing Board approval, shall establish the parameters for non-resident participation.
    2.2). Rules to ensure that Sun City West residents have priority over non-residents shall be established by the General manager.

    It is abundantly clear the board wants to work with the general manager in encouraging outside play. More importantly, they never want to do it so as to let non-residents have priority over members.

    Freaking Yikes!
     
    Larry, FYI and eyesopen like this.
  5. Larry

    Larry Well-Known Member

    A simple survey of rates for non-residents at surrounding golf courses would give the golf management the price they should be charging for non-members instead of giving it away. This isn’t rocket science. Wanna sell annual passes to non-members? Fine. Cap the number of rounds available on a weekly basis.
     
    BPearson likes this.
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    At the second candidate forum i asked a very simple question: As a board member in 2023, would you allow the membership to vote like they did in 1981 on buying the Sun Bowl from DEVCO? I left it open ended which allowed a couple of them to squirm out of answering straight up. One suggested we already do that because we now have member/board exchanges. Really?

    The real question that should be put before the membership in 2023 is this: Should the RCSC ever let non-residents get priority over members on tee times and should they ever let them golf for less money than members pay? Imagine how that vote would turn out.
     
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    While attending the board meeting Thursday i picked up the September financials. Would it surprise anyone to find out they are still selling more full play golf passes than in years past? Both inside and outside passes are on the rise; clearly the best golf deal in the country. Funny thing is, i listened to the reasons we need to increase our lot assessments from Darla (written by the gm who wants the money), and some of was in fact for exploding golf costs. The oddity was those full play passes for residents haven't been raised by since 2017 and the crappy $250 increase for non-members wasn't a blip on the screen.

    It simply is what it is. Sun City's solution to rising costs is to sell cheap golf. It makes literally no sense, but apparently no one cares.
     
    Linda McIntyre likes this.
  8. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    So...full play passes haven't been raised since 2017, but now they want to raise our assessment? They have already raised the PIF fee from $3500 to $4000 and although the real estate market has kind of slowed down, there were many home sales earlier in the year!

    Nothing will get fixed until we see new Directors on the Board. New members like John Fast who has a background in finance!
     
    Linda McIntyre, eyesopen and BPearson like this.
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I am fascinated by this issue (full play passes for non-residents) when overlaid with the pending RCSC election. There are 4200 golfers in Sun City. Those that buy the surcharge pass and those that pay the full daily rate make up 75% of the golfers. You can do the math and the simple reality of outside full play passes are non-residents potentially taking your tee times amd paying less than what most of you are paying.

    Only a couple of board members took your concerns to heart. Only the minority of them cared about your concerns. The argument the outside full play passes are keeping your rates down is nonsense. Those 12,000 to 13,00 tee times they are taking would be sold to either members (whom they belong to), or to outsiders coming in and buying open times and paying the full price non-resident rate. That's what they do in Sun City West; their bylaws say, non-residents cannot take priority over the members. How freaking hard should that be?
     
    eyesopen and Enigma like this.
  10. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    A question wrapped in an enigma: I will keep this brief so here's the challenge: Someone explain to me why Sun City West, with one less golf course and roughly 40,000 less rounds played per year will have golf revenues of between 1.5 and 2 million dollars more than Sun City?

    It's an interesting question and with an easier answer...who can get their head around it?
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  11. Larry

    Larry Well-Known Member

    Can you imagine what the reaction would be from members that are not golfers if they couldn’t use the other amenities because outsiders were using them instead? That’s really the issue.
     
    eyesopen and BPearson like this.
  12. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    It's available for viewing in the
    It is the issue, but it's not resonating!
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  13. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Well saiid Larry and Linda is right…does anyone even care?
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  14. Larry

    Larry Well-Known Member

    It’s time for those of us that do care to step up and rally around the candidates that can make a difference. We need to contact our friends and neighbors and get them to vote for the difference makers. This is the only way we can have our voice be heard.
     
    eyesopen and BPearson like this.
  15. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    Jean Totten posted on her FB page (iluvsuncity) that she attended an event at the Bell Center this morning and she was surprised at the number of people that had no idea the Board had proposed raising the assessment and the budget is being reintroduced Thursday! How many even realize there's an election in progress?
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  16. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Darn it! You just let the cat out of the bag!
    Shhhhhh! We don't want people to know that Jean Totten, John Fast and Steve Collins will do everything in their power to restore Sun City back to a co-governing community where the Member's opinion actually care!
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  17. Larry

    Larry Well-Known Member

    Tell your neighbors and friends. Hell, they probably never have voted. Get them involved.
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  18. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Well-Known Member

    Jean Totten, as One Day at a Time:

    If one person decided to walk their block taking a few minutes of their time to explain to neighbors who might not know what has been taking place, and multiply that by the number of members/readers of TOSC, do you realize the impact it would have?! HUGE!! One afternoon. One neighborhood. Remember, it takes a village! Spend an afternoon this week talking to everyone you meet who is a homeowner/member of this community in preparation for the meeting on Thursday at 9 am at the Sundial Auditorium.

    Background:
    *At the October 27th meeting, the 2023 Budget was introduced to the BOD by the Finance & Budget committee who approved it from the GM.
    *Nowhere on the agenda was an annual assessment raise of $29.00 per household mentioned - but it was in there.
    *It was voted down.
    *I understand that with inflation, etc., an increase might be necessary.
    *But tell me why you hid it from the members.
    *And tell me what you are going to use it for since there is over 10M in our CarryForward account from previous budgets that was not spent.

    *Now one of the directors who voted No wants to change his vote.
    *It is on the agenda for the board meeting this week.
    *What can we do? Show up!
    *Better yet, Show up and Sign up to speak against the agenda item. A simple "I'm against a hike in the assessment" is all that one needs to say.
    *Perhaps if enough of us members register our displeasure, the board members who voted yes the last time might listen to what the members have to say.

    Thank you for the opportunity to speak.
     
    eyesopen and Nia N Maxwell like this.
  19. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    After years of pushing members away, is it any surprise members believe they have no power, no authority and no right to tell the board and management they don't like or agree with what they are doing? RCSC members and board members have always been protective of our amenities and outside play/usage. Why is it the members know and understand how valuable they are and the board and management sees them as something to sell cheaply to those not living and owning here?
     
    eyesopen and Nia N Maxwell like this.
  20. Larry

    Larry Well-Known Member

    I call the process we are seeing top line management. All they are concerned with is producing more revenue regardless of the consequences. It’s not important if it’s in the best interest of the members, just as long as more money is collected.
     
    eyesopen likes this.

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