It's Not Even About Golf Anymore?

Patiently???
Jean Totten as ODAAT

 

Sorry Jean! I thought your mind had already been made-up! My bad!

You're under no obligation to pull the trigger on this if you don't feel it's right, but you know we're behind you!

 

I was kidding, Tom; no problem.

I am very serious about running.

IC was absolutely correct when he/she said, "The membership's only leverage with the RCSC is their ability to elect Directors which they hope will make decisions beneficial to member interests." That is exactly how I feel. But the membership also has to realize that one or two newly appointed Board directors are not going to be able to do it by themselves. Each and every person who purchased a home here signed a facilities agreement, made a commitment to the community, and bears responsibility for what is to be. After reading what has taken place over the years - rewriting and changing the bylaws so that our voices cannot even be heard - I can understand why some of the folks who have been here awhile are bitter and feel like there is nothing that they can do to make a change; and give up. But, just in the past year alone, hundreds of homes have been sold with brand new members who have searched for a piece of paradise and feel that they have found it. They need to know the history; they need to be educated on what's changed, and they need to understand why it needs to swing back the other way; they need to step up and be counted. It's not just fun and games.

Because if we don't pay attention and "get involved, if we don't do our due diligence on the Board candidates and elect pro-membership focused Directors, or worse, if we don't vote at all, we get what we as a community deserve. " (IC)

Thanks for your support, Tom. I'll be the first to admit that there is much to learn, but I'll also be the first to admit when I need some guidance/assistance with learning it.

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy - not on fighting the old - but on building the new." **

**From the Quote Investigator https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/28/socrates-energy/#return-note-6369-1 website.
Socrates did not make this quote.
No sources from the philosopher’s era attribute these words to him. It actually comes from a character in former gymnast Dan Millman’s 1980 fictionalized memoir “Way of the Peaceful Warrior,” in which a character nicknamed Socrates offered the saying as a piece of advice.

 

I wouldn't worry about who the candidates are at this point. I'm far more focused on defining what this election is about. Does the Sun City belong to the membership or does it belong to the management team? Are the board members sitting at the table worried about the members rights or making the management team happy? There is clearly a delineation between those serving now, and can we identify candidates who want to move the ball back into the members court?

When i tell you, there's never (NEVER) been a board willing to give away the amenities to outsiders, that's not hyperbole. That is the reality of 60 plus years of history. We all watched the June meeting where board members were more worried about hurting managements ability to make decisions than they cared about what was happening on our golf courses. We all watched as the board voted to keep the full play non-resident golfers satisfied than they cared about 20 year members who raised an issue regarding tee times. Clearly they opted to support a 45 year old living in Peoria.

You/i can't make this shit up. It's where we are, it's what we have become. It's also 100% wrong. Can i be more clear than that?

 

Not worrying about who the candidates are will help to guarantee more of the same. The only way to change the game is to change the players. That’s the message that needs to be heard. Like minded members need to be identified and supported.

 

FYI, I stopped going to the candidate forums awhile back -- I just found the "snootiness" sometimes exhibited by the moderators (and some candidates) was rudely off-putting, the candidates were often unaware of issues they were questioned about so their answers were meaningless, and far too many members wasted mic time mumbling incoherently, sometimes not even asking an actual question. But I'll reconsider.

Politics is politics, and in today's world (where truth and facts don't seem to matter to a lot of people), putting faith in what people say off the cuff seems risky. Asking for a signed written response seemed like it might have a better chance of exposing the facts. But putting together such a set of questions is non-trivial, for sure.

In all honesty, I only have two requirements of candidates -- 1)that they will work diligently to revert the Corporate Documents and policies back to the state wherein the membership had significant input into the what and how the RCSC is managed, and 2)will they strive to conduct meetings and Corporate business in a manner open and transparent to the membership, similar to that required Under Title 33.

 

Well, with all due respect, if you don't ask your own questions then you'll never get any satisfactory answers. You'll only get the talking points that the candidates want you to hear with no opportunity to hold their feet to fire.

You don't need to ask them "gotcha" questions to find out where their allegiance lies; is it with the Members or the Corporation.

The only way to make change happen is to be involved. Sitting home and watching the Candidate Forum on YouTube will only raise more questions than answers!

 

Candidates matter Larry, no question. For now we don't know who they are or who they will be. We do however know what the hot button item of the day is; non-resident full play passes being sold to them for less money than those of us who live here pay to play a round of golf. We know they rent golf cars for less money and we also know they can join small groups (30 or more) and bypass the lottery system.

More importantly, we know the majority of the board and the management team believe that is just fine. It's not, nor should it ever be. Frame the argument, establish the facts and then run it straight up their backside (figuratively). There's never, NEVER, been a board who thought this way. In fact, board members were always fiercely protective of members coming first.

 

Yesterday while meeting with some good friends, we were chatting about golf in Sun City. Two of the five didn't live here but know more about the community than most that do. In fact, one of the guys worked for DEVCO for nearly 20 years. The other three of us have a better working knowledge than most.

One of the guys is a golfer and i was able to pick his brain. As you may have read, if you have been following this thread, golfers are hesitant to speak out. Most golfers living in Sun City understand just how good it is. My friend from yesterday golfs quite a bit. I was surprised when he told me he buys the surcharge pass. That means he pay the RCSC $800 a year to access the courses and when he golfs he pays an additional $7 in season and $5 during the summer. I used to buy that pass when it was $620.

The difference between that pass and the full play pass is one encourages more play (which reduces the cost per round), the other results in paying a fixed amount based on the time of year and means you pay more. A good number of golfers calculate which pass is better for them.

None of which is germane to this discussion. What shocked everyone but the golfer was the ridiculous cost per round for non-members purchasing the full play pass. In season (Nov 1-April 30) golfing anywhere in the Phoenix area costs $60-&150 a round dependent on the quality of the course. That's just what golfers expect to pay. Except in Sun City. Mind you, i'm not talking about residents here, i'm talking about those 150 full play non-resident pass buyers who are paying $20 per round.

When i said that was the number, threw in they got a cart for half price and also had the right to displace members, the looks on their faces said it all. Then they added, that can't happen. But, indeed it does. Then i asked my buddy about small groups (30 or more) and if it was true they could bypass the lottery. No one had confirmed that; he did. Now all we need is the answer to the question; can those non-resident full play passes join these groups to make up the 30 required golfers?

I think i already know the answer to that question, but perhaps the director of golf, general manager or the board president would like to log in to TOSC and clear the question up. If not, rest assured it will be asked and answered at the member/board exchange meeting in Sept. Hopefully they will have those answers readily available then.

 

Bill, it’s obvious that you’re preaching to the choir. It’s time for you to recruit candidates if you’re not willing to run. Changing the players is the only way this game will be won.

 

Everything is a secret from the RCSC when it comes to who is a candidate or who isn't. If push comes to shove and i have to put my name in, i will. I'm pretty certain they don't want me to run or be anywhere near the stage when they have the candidate forum. That of unto itself is reason for me to gather the required signatures. Once i see who is running, i can make up my mind.

 

I am certain that they are heavily recruiting candidates right now.

 

I doubt it. They won't want to dilute their voter pool by spreading votes around to too many people.

 

Trust me, as we get closer to election day, there will be a massive voter education process, well beyond what the RCSC puts on. As noted above, while there are candidate forums and candidate information sheets placed at rec centers, we all need a deeper dive into what those running stand for. We also understand the importance of getting out the vote. I will go out on a limb and say, this election will be the largest vote in a very long time.

Before we get there, we need to focus on the now. Last year the hot button was Karen McAdam being fired and the plight of the pickleball players losing one of their venues. Not to minimize that importance of those issues, but this years election is about so much more. We saw in June several of the board members decide to support management rather than help the golfing community who had questioned changes made over the last couple of years.

It was shameful, because those changes kept RCSC members from accessing our golf courses. These changes made non-residents, buying full play passes, able to book tee times ahead of members. Guaranteed them a cheaper rate on the rental of a golf car than members paid and in some cases, preempted residents from even getting a golf car. Worst of all, they allowed non-members the right to pay an average of $20 per round. A number unheard of in the golf world.

No one living in Sun City should take this abuse of power/authority lightly. This is such an easy argument to frame and one the members should be resentful over. No matter what the RCSC does now, no matter how they respond, we all will live with their actions because the full play golf passes sold to non-residents live on for the next year. They can't fix it at the next board meeting. Because of their foolishness it lives on and the membership should not forget what they have done. When it is time to cast a ballot, board members should be told loud and clear how members feel about their actions.

It's time we all start holding people accountable for their actions.

 

PB. I will be watching your postings to determine who will get my vote.

 

Stay tuned. lots to come peg.

 

I certainly hope you have a better insight on this than I? As far as I know, there are currently only 4 people running, 3 of which are currently on the Board and seeking re-election!

Please tell me there's more!

 

There will be more.

 

Don't know where to post this.
Here is info regarding Classified information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information
It is my personal opinion that all and every bit of information government and other can be obtained
So why bother to classify it?
Comments please.

 

Rather than mucking up the thread on outside play and golf, here's the link to where peg's question can be answered. Click here.

Now back to our regular programing and how much we all love outsiders using our golf courses for less money than we pay and better access. Don't forget the golf cars being cheaper as well.