What's Wrong With Sun City?

What a horrible header and to be clear, i wrote it this way on purpose. It's called "click bait" and at times i find i just need to push some buttons. It's way easier, and way more fun to write a thread on "what's right with Sun City. " And, it would be way longer.

All of which is just a jumping off point to answer the question, "why does the Sun City Advocates even exist?' I see of late we have been attacked again as "haters." The word is, that's how the new general manager labels us. Not surprising, that's how several folks who hate the message brand us. It's nothing new, labels are the lazy man's tool to dispatch or end a debate. Having an actual discussion is way more challenging.

Obviously i can't or won't even try to speak for others. Having spent time with them, i suspect most feel as i do, i love Sun City. I love what it has given me since the day i retired and we moved here. In fact, having bought our first house in 1999, 4 years before we could legally live in the community, Sun City helped me get through those last 4 years of work. I knew we would be moving on to a better place and longed for that day to come when we would leave Minnesota and find our place in the sun.

It has never let me down. It was everything i had hoped for, and more. The longer i lived here, the more i got involved, the better i understood just how unique, how special it was. During the 20 plus years since we first bought, i have also watched it evolve. Some of it for the better, some of it for the worse. Change is a constant, and with it comes things often beyond our control.

What is happening in our society plays a huge role. While we may have those newly painted white walls around our 7 mile long and 3 mile wide community, it doesn't keep out the ugly. When we first bought here, when we would visit before moving here, we would drive through the walls and feel a sense of relief, a sense of joy from escaping the craziness out there.

What was funny was, as i read through interviews with early pioneers and read stories contained in the museum files, that sense of sanity was often repeated and retold. Webb's sales people used to tell new buyers they could add 10 years to their lives by moving here. No data to support that, but when taking stress out of the daily grind, life does become more simple, more enjoyable.

They (those moving here) also found they needed more than just playing their lives away. By volunteering their lives took on purpose and had more meaning than simply lazing by the pool getting brown as a nut. It was the perfect marriage of play time and "work time." Work as defined in giving back to keep your community affordable. Sun City literally became the perfect place to retire to. Oddly enough, history shows us the Webb marketing people didn't ignore those who wanted or needed to keep working as entire advertising campaigns were built around them.

And therein is one of our (Sun City's) challenges. We know with the demise of employer funded pension plans, retirement will be illusive for many. We know those moving here will be working later in life. We know the community will need address that change from a retirement community to be focused on an age restricted community. There's a difference.

All of this was little more than setup for the next course, the next piece of our discussion. it will become more on point, more specific. Stay tuned.

 

A couple of weeks back we had a poster jump into the fray and share some thoughts. He wasn't far off on his assessments that Sun City would be facing bigger issues than how much we spent at the Mountainview Rec Center rebuild. The community has evolved and the 16 shopping centers and 31 churches will continue to feel the strain of shopping habits changing and less folks being involved in organized religion. Beyond that, the country is being ripped to shreds by the polarization from politics as we grow further apart. Throw in the challenges of the next generation Sun City residents (Gen X), having to work later in life which means having less free time to do all the things the community lifestyle was based on and one quickly comes to understand how difficult solutions will be.

None of these are easy fixes, nor are they agenda items any one organization in Sun City has on their radar screen. The community wasn't built to deal with big picture items. We know there was a push for incorporation that went on for 35 years. We know the majority of those living here were against it. We also know some of those who held positions of power felt there would come a time when it would happen. Without a city government, we are left to try and answer or address these issues without the governance that comes with a mayor, city council and all of the departments and agencies usually in place.

The easiest way to start this is with the meeting held at the Sundial auditorium and sponsored by SCHOA. The POSSE was there and the presentation was by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department (our police force). Attendance was 700 plus and what we saw and heard repeatedly was the importance of working together. Minor crime (burglaries and scams) were on the increase. The argument is Sun City is an easy target because we don't have our own police force and we are a bunch of old people (easy prey).

I was stunned to see an ad taken out in the Independent last Monday whereby a resident suggested we (the community) needed to hire our own police/security force. The ad was in conjunction with a Letter To The Editor where in both he posted/pitched the costs if each household were to contribute. I will give him an A for effort for thinking outside the box. The reality is, there would be no such thing as every household making a payment without a mechanism. Another Sun City resident suggested we consider creating a "tax district" similar to our fire district to accomplish the same thing a few months back. That may get it done but would take a vote by those living here.

All of which makes me look back at Sun City's history. Crime has always been an issue, all-be-it on a lessor scale. In those early years, neighborhood block watches blanketed the community. Working in conjunction with the POSSE, they were literally everywhere. One of the items mentioned at the meetings was for residents to mark your items thieves like to steal. When i was elected to the SCHOA board (2006-2008), we still had the old electric engraving tools. Today, there's other options available.

These suggestions are just small solutions, the bigger question is an overall security issue that goes beyond the residents. Only a handful of us stayed for the RCSC presentation last year dealing with the RCSC ability to develop a strategic security plan for their rec centers. They showed us two proposals, one more expensive than the other, but both easily affordable given they enormous reserves they have built up given the massive carry forwards over the past 10 years.

The most expensive was elaborate and impressive. It was holistic approach whereby every center and amenity would have camera's across the community. Card access to every center would be added so we knew who was where when. The technology that is out there is 100 fold better than 25 years ago. The lessor expensive is one that was intriguing. Communities are placing camera's with license place readers on main arteries and there is an available data base to identify cars that may pose a risk or threat. Obviously it isn't an end all be all, but what everyone knows about crime is, the more potential to be caught, the less likely to become a victim.

The reality is, the more the RCSC is able to invest in security at our centers, golf courses and other locations the less likely criminals are to use Sun City as their next target. It was one of the reasons i was so excited by the presentation they did. It just seemed we were headed down the right path. But, were/are we?

Stay tuned.

 

You, respectively, have me kinda confused? In this thread you tell us it's easily affordable, but in your other thread, "It's Just Math Folks" you tell us:

"My point here is simple, we have dedicated virtually all of the PIF through 2026 for one rec center and a bunch of turf reduction. Maybe it makes sense, maybe not. Time will tell. Time will tell if spending this much money was right or wrong. Time almost always provides the answer. Till then, i'll still keep asking; is there such a thing as spending too much money on a project or is it just money and who cares?"

So which is it? can we afford it or not?

 

A good friend sent me an email last week and told me he saw an event in the newspaper in Sun City Grand that looked like it would be fun to attend. He popped online and within less than 1 minute, had found available seats on the chart, selected and paid for them. Less than 1 minute. Damn. Why is that significant to this discussion? But before i answer, here is what i told him in response. It was regarding the blast email i get weekly from Sun City West. Here's the link to the article.

I follow other age restricted communities, as one of our former board members had stated, it is important to stay aware and competitive with our competition. I 100% agreed with him and another of the reasons i had endorsed him for a second term. Anyway, in this week's email was a link to a story about a company that will be starting work in Sun City West, here's the header: "Internet company beginning fiber installation in SCW."

As only a small handful of you were in attendance, the RCSC put on a presentation/study session regarding their state of technology, or more appropriately stated their lack of technology. I don't want to relive the agony of the meeting, suffice to say it would be hard to imagine how it could possibly have been worse than what it was. Oddly the RCSC employee giving the presentation was a former Sun City West tech guy and it was clear he understood the challenges he would be facing.

We've always know Sun City was technologically challenged. Members and committees have been clamoring for technology upgrades before 2010. It's never been a secret and worse yet, it's never been a priority. 4 years ago a group of members showed up at a board meeting and were adamant they be able to buy tickets online rather than gathering in the early morning darkness at Lakeview (i'm told some folks even camped out the night before to be first in line). Go figure.

That's a testament to the quality of the shows we get on Wednesday night at the Sundial auditorium, but surely doesn't say much about out IT capabilities. The general manager heard the hue and cry and quickly started working on plan to sell tickets online. Ticket prices were going to be increased to cover the costs, but at least it was a step forward. Just as it was to be unveiled, it all fell apart and the one report i recall was they were recognizing those lining up at 4 am in the morning and loved the experience of doing it that way. Utter nonsense. They simply weren't capable of doing what other age restricted communities had been doing for 10 years or more.

I also recall vividly a question relative to the prospect of the RCSC going to fiber optics. The answer was, "too expensive." I have no doubt it was true given that isn't the business we/they are in. However, as this company now doing it in SCW was apparently sniffing around for fertile new ground, it would seem to me to have been a marriage made in heaven. A company willing to absorb the expense working in conjunction with both an organization and a membership eager and hungry to improve all aspects of the available technology they would be installing. Why not Sun City?

Here's why it matters: In the second post i did in this thread i mentioned the RCSC's presentation regarding all things security. The reality is, none, let me shout it, NONE. of it can be done given the current and sorry state of our technology. We have no capacity or capabilities to fix anything unless or until we get our technology up to speed (pun intended). If we are even going to consider how we enhance community security, we need to have every aspect of our technology redone. The gm is talking a three year time frame.

I know several of the folks on the Technology committee are pushing hard for an accelerated schedule but our gm has said he wants to be conservative in the approach to fix it (his words, not mine). Folks, we cannot afford to go slow. And, to be even more blunt, we should not be in the position we are in. It's simply an embarrassment. And while it's i guess being polite or tactful to say it is no ones fault, that is pure crap.

I have no interest in laying blame. We should be focused on getting our IT fixed now and installing the necessary security components that will benefit everyone in the community as quickly as possible. I know, everyone wants to pretend everything is perfect in Sun City, it's not. We have several issues that need to be addressed because over the past 15 years we elected to ignore them.

 

To answer FYI's question, we can afford it and it won't be coming out of PIF. We were told explicitly that PIF couldn't be used for technology because of the 15 year life span. That said, we know there's a massive surplus in the carry forward that one could argue should have been spent over the years on technology but wasn't. Unless and until the decision making process is wrestled from the gm and returned to the board, i fear little will change.

Think not? Watch the infighting come the next board meeting and the second reading regarding the purchase of 100k worth of new exercise equipment.

 

Your previous post raised a question in my mind! How many seats are available at SunDial when they hold those paid concerts, and how does that number compare to the number of seats in the proposed theater?

Never mind, I just looked. 907 seats available for the SunDial concerts but only 450 seats available in the proposed theater! Hmmmm?

 

Hey Carole, hope all is well. You are spot on, the IT situation is perhaps the biggest single problem we have faced since the roof collapse at Sundial in 2006. What is terrifying is the low key approach coming from the general manager. I know the committee dealing with it is pushing but the once again we are seeing what has evolved over the past 15 years, the gm has become the single most important player in deciding all things Sun City. This community never functioned that way. Then in 2006, the gm found out by taking more and more off the plates of the board members she enhanced the role of the gm. Then they gave her the authority to rewrite the very documents that governed her. Is there any surprise how we got to where we are?

Which is the perfect segue into the second reason the Sun City Advocates role is important. During that 15 years, as committees were neutered and the membership kept being pushed further and further away, we grew complacent. We evolved to the point where anything management proposed, asked for or just did was perfectly fine. The board continued to relinquish their role in governance and told the management to just decide what was best for the community. At its height, with 20 members in the board meetings and even greater attendance between the board, management and RCSC employees life became very easy.

The beauty of Sun City's documents from 1960-2005 wasn't in how they were used as much as they were the buffer to keep boards from doing dumb things. The argument made in 2006 going forward was those of us living here were somehow and for some reason going to ruin Sun City. It was ludicrous on its face, but the gm convinced board members they needed to let her rewrite the documents to save us from ourselves. Sadly, those protections were already written into the documents but board members listened to the one sided argument.

If you doubt what i am saying, ask your self how many board members over the years were fired? Some quit, some died but until two years ago, board members weren't fired for challenging the gm. Then consider, the general manager's job, over all those years was clearly defined in our documents; running the day to day operations of the organization. Boards over the years were usually interested in hearing the gm's position, but that was the extent of it. Board's took it upon themselves to do their own research. They also had a plethora of committees with the membership taking an active role in helping board members decide what was right or wrong for the community.

There's no point in reliving the past 15 years, it's yesterday's news. However, consider this; When one person is left to decide what is best for Sun City, is that better than a community of people living here, loving it here having a say in our direction? I think not. And to be even more blunt, while it is nice to say the IT problem was no one's fault, those decisions to ignore every single suggestion to fix our technology falls in one persons lap. Guess who that would be?

Let's be even more clear, if Sun City was broke and had no money to afford technology improvements that would be one thing. As i type this we now know they have accumulated a small fortune in their cash reserves and if that isn't bad enough, they subsidized golf out of the general ledger account to the tune of 25 million dollars. It was simply a business decision to ignore spending money on technology and invest in other areas.

Hopefully in the coming years, the ad hoc committee on the by-laws rewrite will return us to the point where the community's voice is once again heard. Hopefully committee's will become the catalyst for change, rather than putting them in a room and pretending they are doing something. The first test will come at the next board meeting. At the last one we saw the board pass the first reading of a motion on a recommendation to buy 125K worth of exercise equipment on a trial basis. As i watched the gm slowly back-off his push to squash the proposal, i also saw the light go on in his head to do it away from the maddening crowd. What we have learned over the years is board members act differently in front of the membership than they do when sitting in the gm's office.

I hope i am wrong; we'll see eh?

 

And now we have a GM who doesn't even live in Sun City. His only invested interested is perhaps in keeping his job?

If only it were up too the Ad Hoc Committee. It all needs to be approved by the board so maybe the longer the Ad Hoc Committee convenes, there's an opportunity to replace some of the current, power-hungry, board members at the next election.

 

No worries Carole, with the coming summer heat, the departure of a third of the residents and the summer break by the board, life for all slows down. Today's first member/board exchange meeting will provide us a roadmap for the next several months. Lot's to sort out but our first goal is to identify those candidates who show an interested in restoring Sun City to a place and time when the membership's opinion meant something.

 

No argument from me that the RCSC's IT has lagged far behind the norms of most Corporations. Technically, Information Technology (IT) is the use of any computers, storage, networking and other physical devices, infrastructure and processes to create, process, store, secure and exchange all forms of electronic data.

50 years ago +/-, corporations and government transitioned from paper to electronic data storage. That reduced the physical space needed to store (paper) data and enabled accessing the information from more diverse locations and by more people. (eg, libraries replaced their card catalogues with computer terminals and allowed access from your home.) Protection against unauthorized access to the data transitioned from locked doors/locked filing cabinets to secure internal private networks, and today, use of the Internet. Data loss pre-IT relied on duplicate copies of the data stored at different locations that were catastrophe (fire, flood, earthquake, hurricane/tornado) resistant. Today's IT solutions for data-loss protection typically involves backups stored at remote locations (cloud storage, for example).

Suffice it to say, the RCSC has been guided by too many naive people who saw little need for security -- thus, until recently, had Lakeview been destroyed by a fire or earthquake all Corporate records would have perished, and even now there's no indication paper documents from the past are being digitized/catalogued, so they are still at risk, AFAIK.

IMHO, many things have to occur to bring the RCSC into the modern times of IT. It can't happen overnight (ie, no matter how many people/dollars are thrown at it it takes 9-months to make a baby) and allowing parochial squeaky wheels to drive the priorities will ultimately waste time/dollars.

1. First, the RCSC's attitude must change to accept that it's needed; that it needs more than just a"fix" -- without that we'll just be watching a can get kicked down the road. If the Board/GM continue thinking they should be "conservative in the approach" they clearly still don't understand and the can is going to be kicked.
   
2. Next the RCSC needs a plan/budget to create an IT infrastructure that makes data accessible and secure from loss/unauthorized access -- that means lots of hardware, software, and training for both employees and members.
   
3. And then they need to do it -- and we members need to understand it will disrupt/change things in the process.
   
4. Finally, once there's sufficient reliable infrastructure, the features we have all been expecting for years can be planned/added in an orderly fashion -- and the list is large (access control, attendance, online registration, ticketing, news, customer service, improved audio/visual/media capabilities in rooms used for meetings/classes... etc., etc.).

The RCSC lacks both the staff and knowledge to accomplish this task successfully. We live in a dynamic world so the project never ends -- there will always be new capabilities to add and older infrastructures to upgrade/replace. IT rightly has tentacles in all facets of the RCSC -- the clubs, the amenities, facilities, and admin. It should be considered important and should be staffed/managed to be responsive to the needs of the Corporation/members.

 

Since the other 2 Sun City ( west and Grand) have their IT in place, maybe same company could help us and not have to reinvent the wheel.

I had to miss the “exchange”. Hoping it was productive.

 

It was amazing, beyond my wildest imagination. However, it was more Karma than Kumbaya. Apparently the video from it has already been posted, though no email sent yet, should be coming this morning. I want to watch it again and give my thoughts after that.

 

Maybe a three prong approach is needed. Something new board candidates can rally around:

• Fix / Upgrade IT - Right now its still in remediation mode. More can be done while you fix it. Spend some more of that carry forward fund. Hire a good consulting firm. While everything cannot be done at once, a lot can be planned and ready to start as needed items get fixed and upgraded. We can do more.
  
• Security - There are some old school methods that can help in the interim while technology infrastructure is implemented. Shopping Malls and Shopping Centers have security firms that patrol parking lots and facilities. We have none of that. Walmart has better security than we do. Put a team at each rec center to walk the center and patrol the parking lots. Hire an outside security firm. Lets keep our vehicles safe and allow members to safely traverse the parking lots between their vehicle and the center.
  
• Find a NEW GM. Someone who knows more than just operations. Lots to discuss here, but it should be done. Bill Cook has already shown that he can't really do the job. He keeps saying he doesn't have money and doesn't have resources. His updated management report should be sufficient. What a crock!

Finding an effective GM should be the highest priority (imho). The board should create an ad-hoc committee to define the GM job and Recruit better candidates. But don't let this committee go the route of the ad-hoc bylaws committee and the technology committee: both bylaws and technology are going back to closed meetings. Unacceptable. We have lots of information available to accomplish this.

 

Not to argue, Louis, but to help flesh-out discussion:
IT: I think the guy they have now (Byrd?) has a plan, but he can't get hardware (no real solution to that) and he can't get people. In this market you have to throw a LOT of money at anybody to get them to work. Sadly, 15 years of pinching pennies is now going to cost us lots and lots of dollars. They need to realize they screwed up, realize the current job market, and throw whatever it takes at either full-time employees or consultants.
Security: I personally hate rent-a-cops. Have we fully tapped-out our volunteers? POSSE can patrol and report activity, and what about Parking Lot Wardens like we have golf wardens? A volunteer army just walking around, making their presence known, carrying their cell phone cameras? Also, there are game cameras that just record on a chip - not too expensive and can be put up anywhere. Can we just try deterrence before hiring guns?
GM: I'm not ready to give up on Mr Cook just yet. He's relatively young and running this place as he was taught. With every new Board member that understands their responsibilities and the proper chain of command the situation may resolve itself...

 

The problem as I see is rather simplistic, but hang with me for a minute. I get it that the overwhelming feeling is we should get back to to the 1968-1972 type of era. There is a problem with that line of thinking. First of all, federal, tax, and state law has changed. To go back to that point in history would require redoing all of those laws effecting corporations. Like it or not, the RCSC is a corporation and doesn't follow the rules most people feel are missing.
The problem is simple, really. You can't change what you can't change, and you can't make member of "the Advocates" members of the Board, when they don't have the power legally to do that. You also can't go back to the point where just any member can jump in and do what they want to make Sun City a better place.
Knowing that, is it better than it was before? In some cases, yes. In some cases no. There are things that having a corporation rather than a "membership" that are positive, and some things that are negative. It's not trying to get back to the 1960's to 1970's...because you can't unless you want to change federal, tax, and state laws. The thing you have to do is work within the current legal structure to get things done. The Advocates want to be the "tenth board member". Can't happen due to the law. It's not bylaws, it's state and federal law.
Now, while I say all of this, is the Board of Directors doing all they can? No! Certainly not! But to think that you can give the members the power they had before all of the new laws were passed is idiocy. Think forward, not backward. But remember...the Board of Directors does NOT represent the members. If you think that's the case, read Article V, Section 6 of the ByLaws. The word "member" appears nowhere in there!

 

As one of the founders of the Advocates, we started out thinking that our "motto" could be the 10th Board member. But then we realized that WE were not the 10th Board member; ALL MEMBERS were the 10th Board member. We changed our "motto," but we haven't changed our way of thinking. We try our best to Communicate Educate Participate and encourage all of the residents/members of Sun City to do the same.

When you say we should work within the current legal structure, I guess I'd have to ask what legal structure you're talking about. AZ Title 10? Our Articles of Incorporation? Our Bylaws? Or the law firm that RCSC has employed for many years who counsels them on issues.

Right now we have a pretty defined Board; clearly you can see who is the majority; who the minority. Until we get more Board members who put members before the corporation, it will stay the way it is. So, in all respects, the members do have the power. They just need to be aware of how important their vote and each election is.