Performing Arts Center best location?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by aggie, Jan 12, 2022.

  1. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Wow, this was what I wrote nearly 10 years ago while serving on the Long Range Planning Committee. The then Committee Chair was Larry Klein and two things came out of intensive study of what RCSC Centers/Amenities should receive attention with funds coming from the PIF. A pickleball facility at Marinette and a boatload of funds for golf. The golf “mandatory” expenses included irrigation, storage facilities and Viewpoint Lake repair and these hits to the PIF were only disclosed after our committee had worked on plans for a long time. Sound familiar?

    My summation to the Committee Chair in concluding our work included the following and keep in mind this was January 2012:

    “I took my time in responding as it seemed important to get some input from Sun City residents and prospective buyers. The major constraints in planning any additional new recreational facilities in the near term are the possible costs that may be incurred with Viewpoint Lake repairs, avoiding unnecessary annual assessment increases and the current economy. We’ve been told it’s imperative to go forward with the necessary irrigation repairs to the golf courses and we must rely on the direction of the BOD and Management f0r justifying these expenses from the PIF.

    Bell Center: The location of a 400 seat Performing Arts Center would be ideal at the southeast corner of 99th & Hutton if the site indeed meets all requirements. There would be no disruption of service while being constructed, there is plenty of parking available, easily accessible, and it wouldn’t displace other activities. The next generation seems to be more involved in the arts, learning, lectures and musical performances. The groups involved in the performing arts have waited a long time for a place to showcase their talent and at the same time provide comfortable seating for the audience.”


    Plans for the Performing Arts Center at Bell were drafted showing the placement of the building, adequate parking and the required water retention area. Viewpoint Lake was never satisfactorily repaired, the irrigation at the golf courses ballooned into major course redesigns, pro shops rebuilt and now golf is once again the reason we are in a bind over expense. Oh, let’s not forget the purchase of the property on Grand which never came before the membership or Long Range Planning before it was a done deal.

    I hope the Performing Arts people can get behind an alternative that will get a building constructed sooner and allow much more space for what is needed at Mountain View.

    Phew….now I need to meditate for a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
  2. Carol

    Carol Member

    Someone needs to find that study or report on the Plans for the Performing Arts Center at Bell. That seems to be a very good alternative.
     
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Aggie's right, virtually everything is simply revisiting old territory. For the longest time the membership and committee's played an aggressively active role in the decision making process. Aggie can tell you at least as good as i can how that evolved into them becoming virtually meaningless. She volunteered on served on them for the past 20 years and more diligent than most. During that time frame, the ideas committees came up with simply had lessor value.

    The gm had her agenda and golf was at the core of it. To this day i cannot explain why. She was a smart woman with lots of skills, and apparently she felt she knew best. Sure, boards were complicit with her, but the commonly held belief was we were paying her to have all the answers. It was utter and complete nonsense.

    Here's the other problem. If you watched the video from the other day, you saw there is an inability for management to get their hands on older documents. Aggie talks about the plan for the performing arts theater to be there; it should be easily and readily available. Is it? My sense is data preservation has not been a priority. Which is pretty pathetic given how easy it is to store data to the cloud. Sadly we now know technology was never a "thing" in Sun City.

    In the end, the board simply points to the annual membership fee and tells us how good everything is. I learned long ago, everything comes at a cost. Everything.
     
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  4. Say What

    Say What Active Member

    Bell only, unless they want to level Oakmont and move the practice greens and 9th hole at North course and relocate the driving range.
     
    Nia N Maxwell likes this.
  5. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    The well thought plan for planting the performing arts center at Bell was too practical & made too much sense! Was it Ek’s idea to build extravagantly?? No matter how much time and money? I’ve heard concerns of no bids being taken on projects and suspect contractor “deals!” The more I learn, the worse it gets.
    We must demand the Bell plan be revived for consideration!!
     
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  6. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Lots of luck! This know doubt is one of those "corporate affairs" that we, the Members, have no influence over.

    If they're not going to allow us to vote at our own membership meetings, do you really think they give a crap about what we think?

    And if the Players Club had any sense they would welcome a stand alone facility. First of all, it could be built a lot sooner than waiting for Mountain View. And how happy do you think they're gonna be when they're putting on a performance and you can hear bouncing basketballs and squeaky sneakers coming from the gym?

    I believe there are many more pro's for a stand alone theater than there are con's, not to mention it will reduce the cost of the Mountain View facility and eliminate the concerns for parking.

    Just my opinion!
     
  7. jeb

    jeb Active Member

    Word is that staff cannot find any documentation on a plan/report/study for PAC at Bell. Long shot - but does anyone have - or can contact anyone that might have - a hard copy?
     
  8. LoriEllingson

    LoriEllingson New Member

    I attended the RCSC Board of directors meeting on April 29, 2021 and went up to the podium and suggested that there be a separate building for the performing arts Center. Everything that I said went in one ear and out the other. I did not get any sort of acknowledgment from the board after making my statement. Not even a thank you. I began by telling the board why I was interested in getting involved with the decision making process. I then stated areas of concern that should be taken into consideration. And then I gave solutions. Nothing I stated made one bit of difference when the board voted two months later on the Mountain View project.

    here is what I said in the meeting last April:


    Mountain View rec center remodel

    changes in the current Plan to separate the performing arts center from the rec center

    • Last year I attended several of the meetings for the ad hoc planning committee to discuss what was needed for the remodeling of the Mt. View Rec Center. I asked to be on the committee but was informed that it had already been formed and the only thing I could do was attend the meetings and listen, but not speak until after the meeting was finished. I asked to be contacted for suggestions and help before any plans were submitted for approval. Then when RCSC shut down because of Covid restrictions, I was not allowed to attend any more of the meetings.
    • As a member of both the Tennis Club and the Pickelball club, I felt that my input would be extremely valuable during this planning phase.
    • I hold an undergraduate degree in Physical education with a K-12 teaching certificate endorsed in physical education. I also hold a Masters degree in exercise physiology and kinesiology. I had worked in the recreational and health and fitness industry for 44 years. During that time I was a varsity coach for a high school volleyball, basketball, and softball team as well as a physical education instructor for grades 10 through 12. During those 44 years I have worked at over 15 different health clubs and recreation centers. I also have attended seminars and workshops at 20+ facilities, too many to mention. During those 44 years I have utilized the building facilities and equipment as both a member and an employee.
    • Due to my qualifications and experience listed above, I believe my input into the planning of the new facility at Mountain View would be extremely helpful and valued. Too many times I have seen management close down a facility to remodel and inconvenience the members for an extended period of time; only to open the club to a disappointed membership when the changes that were made were not an improvement and often times made the usage of the facility more inconvenient and less functional.
    Although I do appreciate all the time and effort that the ad hoc planning committee spent on helping to move forward with plans to remodel the Mt. View Rec Center, I believe that their plans are not in the best interest of the RCSC cardholders. I believe there is dire need to separate the theater from the rec center. I feel that the theater should be built in a new location separate from the Mountain View site. I think plans to build the theater should come first, and then when that project is finished, then we should move forward with the remodel at Mountain View. Members of the theater have been asking for a new facility for a very long time, and their needs should come first. I think it is important to keep a separation of the performing arts center from the fitness center. My suggestions for separating the theater from the rec center at Mountain View are based on the following reasons

    • 1. Noise factor. Putting the theater adjacent to the pickle ball courts it’s not a well thought out plan. The noise that is made when a pickle ball is hit with a paddle has caused major lawsuits and concern from numerous Facilities throughout the United States. The city of Fort Collins Colorado dealt with a battle from residents when tennis courts were converted into Pickleball courts in a public park right across the street. Sun City grand also dealt with a lawsuit by homeowners whose homes were adjacent to the existing tennis courts. A condominium association in Vail Colorado dealt with the same issues when Pickleball courts were built in the Golden Peak area. If you put a theater right next to the pickle ball courts, you are going to have to spend an excess amount of money to soundproof the theater, and even then you most likely will still hear the noise from the courts. Will there be a need to shut down usage of the pickle ball courts during a performance in the theater? If so, why inconvenience the Pickelball club Members and stifle their use of play? Last year I was playing tennis at the same time that there was a performance by the theater club. There was no need for me to buy a ticket, as I could hear the singing perfectly fine from the tennis courts. Although you could argue that the acoustics in the existing building are slim to none, why take a chance on having the same problem occur when the new building is finished? And why have to add an additional expense to add layers and layers of insulating noise reduction material to the new building?
    • 2. Parking spaces. The ADA requires a certain number of handicap parking spaces based on the type of usage of each building. If the theater is attached to the rec center, the majority of parking at the main entrance to the building will have to be designated as handicap. Why inconvenience the pickelball, tennis, lawn bowling, swimming, fitness, miniature golf, and other members who will be utilizing the building on a daily basis by making them park further away from the main entrance because of the stipulations imposed by the ADA on the parking requirements for the theater.
    • 3. Cost involved and Lack of fiduciary responsibilities in expenditures. It doesn’t make sense to bulldoze perfectly good tennis courts to make room for a new building to go in its place. The surface of the tennis courts at Mountain View are in great shape. There is already fencing around the courts, and it would be a waste of money to demolish that area to make room for a new building. However, the tennis courts at Lakeview are in a sad sad state of affairs. The nets are all torn and tattered, the surface has cracks on every court and holes the size of the diameter of a basketball in various locations. Also, the fence between the first court and second court is too close to the sideline of the tennis courts, making it unsafe for play. I was told that it would be around $30-$40,000 to rebuild those courts so that they were safe, playable and operational. Why build the theater on perfectly good tennis courts when you could build the theater at Lakeview on an area of land that needs to be totally demolished?
    • 4. Inconvenience to the various clubs currently utilizing the Mt. View Rec Center. Pickleball is the fastest growing sport in the United States and is going to continue to grow in popularity. It makes much more sense to utilize the 2 tennis courts at Mountain View and convert them into eight additional pickle ball courts. That would bring the total number of pickle ball courts to 15. There would be minimal expense involved to make that conversion and it could be done without shutting down the facility and inconveniencing the members that are currently using the existing pickle ball courts. The new plans call for shutting down the entire Mountain View rec center during the construction phase, Therefore forcing all of the Pickleball players to use the Marinette facilities. If I am correct I believe the new plans call for eliminating three of the existing pickle ball courts and building 4 new courts, with an end result of only one additional court. This is not a good plan at all. It is a waste of money to demolish perfectly functioning pickleball and tennis courts. It is an inconvenience to the players to not have use of the facility for over a year or however long it takes for the new construction to be finished. Once it is finished, the pickle ball players will have to park further away, check in at the main entrance, walk down a hallway, finally arrive at the new courts, and only have 1 additional court for play. Then, there is no room to add more pickleball courts in the future, because the new building is too close to the pickle ball courts
    Therefore, I suggest that a separate building should be built for the theater at one of the following locations: 1). the NW Corner of the parking lot at the Sun bowl. 2). The location where the Lakeview tennis courts are. 3). The south east corner of Bell Rec Center where the farmers market is currently located. Each of these locations would have ample parking, would be easily accessible to all members, and would be deemed as a performing arts center, not a recreational center.
     
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  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    If you think back Lori to a recent meeting one of the original members of the Mountainview ad hoc committee stepped to the mic and told them two or three years after their work had ended, he didn't recognize half of what they were proposing in their latest proposal. Oddly, at another meeting, we heard one of the guys from the long range planning committee and a member of the Players tell us they had done everything perfectly and it was all done in conjunction with what the "community" wanted/recommended.

    So, which was it?
     
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  10. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Active Member

    Does that affect the 90-day moratorium on any changes that only the new Board members are going to have a chance to answer? Besides everything else, it sounds like they either need a better office manager for filing things, or a better computer system for storing things, or a lie detector:D test!

    Seriously, though, should your request for "anyone who might have a copy" be written in a letter to the Editor and/or put on our other means of communication to members? It would reach more people than this does.

    Concerned......
     
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  11. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    I vote lie detector test. I also am curious as to where is the new It manager? This is his domain and although he probably has no idea how things were filed/recorded, he should be making sure everything going forward is digitally recorded and BACKED UP.
     
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  12. Say What

    Say What Active Member

    Okay folks here we go bring the haters out I love it but we here so much how golf is a dying sport tennis is more of a dying sport than any sport out there today the money that we spend gliding the tennis courts maintenance on it we could tear all the tennis courts out at Bell and put a really really nice performing arts and auditorium there. Also why is it tennis players have such a piss poor attitude now I'm not directing this at anybody on this board I'm making a statement over the years in three different states they all have an attitude.
     
  13. BobA

    BobA New Member

    The Bell Center location for the Preforming Arts seemed like a no brainer way back when and still is. From what I have seem of the Mountain View Plan it looks like ten pounds of manure in a five pound bag and on a cart with no wheels on hot raining day. Then , let's tend to the garden while the barn is burning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
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