The bastards did it!

8000 reads as of last Sunday and now we are at 9000, 4 days later gang...somebody is paying attention.

 

Whether we get the turnout we're all hoping for at the September 13th meeting, I think we've managed to open a lot of eyes!

Let's hope those "views" transfer into "seats in the chairs".

We might just hit 10,000 before the meeting?

 

Oh yea of little faith FYI, we should be bumping up against 10,000 by late Monday.

 

Thanks for digging Carole. I used to bounce in and out of there but i do find way too much political crap for my liking. I don't care what anyone's politics are, i just don't want them shoved in my face. Seems to me in the old day once you had signed in you could just post stuff. Apparently that has changed? Or, are we talking about setting a separate next door group? That again comes back to how to grow the groups numbers.

 

So there are actually two sites on Facebook, Sun City Chat AZ where i post our history and then a mirror Sun City Chit Chat AZ i just quit. The admin on Chit Chat just posted something the other day i found to be nonsense and simply quit the group. Sun City Chat has a really solid administrator who gives people lots of rope but when stuff gets heated usually just deletes it. Chat just went private and i've blocked 13 posters who love to stir the pot and start the shit rolling. I played that game for years but i'm tired of it and feel moving forward will only happen when we find the things that tie us together not drive us apart.

This thread has covered a variety of topics. One of the things mentioned was the RCSC would be holding an annual meeting in October because they didn't have one earlier this year. Now i am hearing rumors they aren't going to do that. Curious. No confirmation one way or the other, so perhaps someone wants to weigh in on the topic.

 

Previously just lurking but now I'm making the jump! I am outraged at what the BOD did to Ms. McAdam. I am sending a letter to the editor of Sun City Independent. I was going to drive any interested readers to this web site, and create a new discussion (thread?). But, I can also create a Facebook Group. I have one of my own just for our travels because I didn't want the world to know when we were gone from home. My group is a private one. FB keeps tweaking the Groups page, and I've had some issues with posting pictures into an album, but I know my way around; not saying I'm an expert, though.

So - to all of you who regularly post here, where would you send traffic (support) about Karen - Facebook Group or here?? Thanks!

 

Hey ODAAT. Welcome. I would love to see you start a facebook group and, i would also drive traffic here as an aside. As you may note, this site has tons of information and threads that people can get lost in. I've probably started a thousand threads over the years, many with my belief the RCSC has changed the equation on how Sun City was built and why it was successful. We've lost the sense of community and that sense of ownership Meeker worked so hard to build into the fabric.

Unfortunately, for now, that is a lessor issue than what they did to Karen (and to Barbara the year before). Firing board member we elect because they see things differently than the horde of board member rubber-stampers should not be cause to lose your job. That should be our focus as we approach the September meetings. We accomplish some of that here, but not enough. Expanding to include a facebook group just helps grow the circle and we can keep it centered on Karen and the resulting problems from her being fired.

I was hoping i would have gotten heard more about whether in fact the projected October date for membership meeting was indeed cancelled. Talked with a friend today who told me he believed it was a requirement under both Title 10 and Title 33 for an organization to have to hold an annual membership meeting. It's become painfully obvious the RCSC prefers operating without having to allow the members to have a voice so if they did cancel it, i would not find it surprising. For the first time since September of 2009 there is the reality of having 1250 members show up and then they would have to take motions from the floor; scary stuff in their mind.

Delighted to have you join us One Day, if you are willing to start a facebook group dedicated to a growing belief that Sun City residents/members/owners should have a voice i would be one of the first to join. Frankly i'm tired of the gm/management and board thinking they are the owners and we just get to live here as cardholders who should sit passively by with our mouths shut...and pay the bills. It's not how we were built and certainly not why we were successful.

 

One wrinkle pops up immediately.....Private Group (I have no way of knowing who lives in Sun City) OR Public Group (anyone could join). To help with Private status, maybe create a "secret" password ( a clue ... based on something everyone who lives in SC knows, but isn't known outside the community).

 

Title 10
10-3701. Annual and regular meetings; exceptions

A. Unless otherwise provided in the articles of incorporation or bylaws, a corporation with members shall hold a membership meeting annually at a time stated in or fixed in accordance with the bylaws.

B. A corporation with members may hold regular membership meetings at the times stated in or fixed in accordance with the bylaws.

C. A corporation may hold annual and regular membership meetings in or out of this state at the place stated in or fixed in accordance with the bylaws. If no place is stated in or fixed in accordance with the bylaws, the corporation shall hold annual and regular meetings at the corporation's principal office.

D. At regular meetings the members shall consider and act on any matter raised and that is consistent with the notice requirements of section 10-3705.

E. The failure to hold an annual or regular meeting at a time stated in or fixed in accordance with a corporation's bylaws does not affect the validity of any corporate action.

F. Notwithstanding this chapter, a condominium association shall comply with title 33, chapter 9 and a planned community association shall comply with title 33, chapter 16 to the extent that this chapter is inconsistent with title 33, chapters 9 and 16.

RCSC Bylaws

ARTICLE IV – MEMBERSHIP MEETINGS
SECTION 1: ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING

An annual meeting of the Members SHALL be held each year.

Written notice stating the place, day and hour of the annual meeting of the Members shall be posted in RCSC Facilities and/or published in the RCSC newsletter (SunViews) and/or on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org), not less than ten (10) days, nor more than sixty (60) days before the date of the meeting.

With respect to amendments to the Bylaws, notice of any proposed amendment shall be posted in RCSC Facilities and/or on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org) at least ten (10) days prior to a Membership meeting at which these changes shall be considered.

With respect to amendments to the Articles, notice of any proposed amendment shall be posted in RCSC Facilities and/or published in the RCSC (SunViews) newsletter and/or on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org) at least thirty (30) days prior to a Membership meeting at which these changes shall be considered. Such notice shall include the proposed changes to the Articles.

If they fail to hold the Annual Membership Meeting they will once again be deciding not to comply with their own bylaws, and by doing so are violating the same rules that they accused Karen McAdam of doing....unwilling or incapable of performing their duties! It a dereliction of the boards duty not to comply with their own bylaws!

 

IF we were to have a quorum at the Annual Membership Meeting, would we be able to re-instate Karen to her rightful seat? I'm not familiar with that process.

 

You attain a quorum and I'll take care of the process!

 

If there were to be a quorum of 1250 or more members a motion could be made from the floor, say to reinstate her. It is unclear to me if it would need to be supported by the majority present (which would make the most sense) or if at that point the board can then take it back to study the motion on the impact to the community. Something as foolish as their decision to fire her should be a no brainer but of course you are asking them to admit they were wrong. I posted the language from the by-laws above which at best is farcical, but it is how they have isolated themselves from having to deal with the community riff-raff. They much prefer we just sit in the corner with our mouths shut.

Where it gets especially frustrating is for at least the past two years they dealt with new board members the same and picked who could be in the room on certain issues. It was never intended to be this way.

 

Someone makes the motion, someone seconds the motion, there will be a debate process then a vote.

 

I get that, it made sense they would vote it to see if it passes before they refer it to the board to consider, but once they do and the board brings it back before the membership, it appears as if they can just kill it be declaring it harmful to the community. Lots of effort and energy for no outcome expressed by the community. Especially when you consider the Articles of Incorporation gives the community higher standing than the board.

 

I will probably post this on the Facebook page that was created to support Karen but if all of this seems strange (how Sun City functions) let me break it down this way: Sun City and Sun City West were created from the same cloth. There were some minor tweaks but our two communities were based on volunteerism and ownership. With that setup out of the way i am going to make this simple and concise.

1). Sun City West just removed a director from the board. It was a recall by the community members because one of the board members was making outrageous proposals that angered the community at large and the community voted to oust him.
2). Sun City just removed a board member because she was making proposals the community at large supported. The rest of the board was uncomfortable because it made them look foolish. It resulted in them firing her and they (the board) removed Karen from the board.

What is worse, there really is no mechanism for them to remove her other than for missing three meetings or if she is unwilling or unable to perform her duties. They simply did it because they believed they could and no one would care. They anticipated those angered would cool down and forget it by September and will in likelihood try and placate the pickleball players to get them to walk away and drop it.

I will just conclude with this: This is an issue that is bigger than pickleball courts being south of Grand Ave. It's an abuse of power and 15 years ago they would not have even considered it under our existing by-laws. A time when 100 angry members could show up, create a quorum and hold them accountable for their actions. Unfortunately along the way the gm rewrote the rules and now they have all the cards...unless of course the community at large shows up lets them know how unhappy they are.

 

Did you see it?

Did you see Sue Wilson's story on page 8 of todays Independent? What a crock!

First of all, there are things that can be revealed about executive session, like the fact that a director is no longer serving! You don't have to tell us why or what she was accused of, but you should at least let us know she is no longer serving! The reason for that would be so we know not to approach that director with any of our RCSC concerns or questions because they no longer serve!!!! (RONR 9:26)

Next, she keeps on pushing the conflict of interest excuse when the FACT is, director McAdam was never informed, and to this day, does not know the reason she was being terminated!

Thirdly, a conflict of interest, (as they define it), is not a reason to be terminated. Only failure to report such a conflict would be a violation and candidates do that prior to being approved! And I think that just belonging to a Club is bunch of BS as well. That's what Sun City is all about, a recreation facility and living here makes you a member of the corporation whether you like it or not! (Does paying $496 each year ring a bell?) Besides, the board gave the responsibility of Clubs to management, so where was director McAdam's conflict? She was speaking on behalf of the community!

Forth.. a member cannot be compelled to abstain or recuse themselves from casting a vote. Voting is a right of membership that cannot be denied. (RONR 45:5)

Lastly, (maybe) isn't it ironic that director McAdam was dismissed way back in June and this is the very first time the board has made any sort of announcement?

To be continued....

Oh,... one more thing! If the board were ever to understand and follow their own bylaws, then I wouldn't need to be explaining all this!

 

Excuse me, but i had to wash my mouth out after puking following reading the pile of tripe from the president. Honestly, that's the best you've got, "there's more to the story." Really, freaking really? Let's see, as FYI pointed out above she alludes to some sort of "conflict of interest." OMG. Every board member i served with that played golf and supported the tens of millions of dollars shoveled at golf were acting with a "conflict of interest." How about the board president who went and asked the gm to replace the cart paths because they were in the way when the ball landed? How about the board president who asked the gm to update the rec center he used? Are you freaking kidding me?

So here's the shitty part madam president, i know the games that were played, i know about the board member who shouted profanities at another board member, i know about the efforts to write up one board member for their sins when you in fact did the same damned things. All one had to do was be in attendance at one or both of the June meetings and your demeanor was embarrassing to watch. It's too bad if you are intimidated by board members who actually understand how boards are supposed to work. The easy answer was fire them isn't it?

Barbara Brehm found issues that as a board member was in fact her duty to question. I said duty and i mean DUTY. This board for damned too long has acted as nothing more than a rubber stamp. Think not? How about releasing the final payoff on the solar system we bought? We (the board) approved a 4.2 million dollar buy-out. Then mysteriously it jumped to 5.2 and now i hear rumors it ended up being even higher. Any truth to that? Just show us the numbers and we can put it all to bed. eh?

See guys, boards are intended to act in the best interests of the community. Not bury shit that is embarrassing or uncomfortable. You can make them swear allegiance all day long and twice on Sunday but that doesn't change their responsibilities in oversight. If i am wrong on anything i have printed lets just review the financials and see who is blowing smoke up someone's backside.

 

You mean the one who dropped the F-bomb at Karen....not 1 but 5 times? That board member?