The bastards did it!

It will be interesting to see how they handle things. Their challenge is they have let Ducey's orders pretty much dictate their course of action so i suspect that will remain the same.

 

I'm not so sure about them following Ducey's Law. We'll have to see what the status of COVID spread is once September rolls around. This would be the perfect opportunity for the RCSC to claim they are a private enterprise and can dictate their own rules regarding group assemblies to shut them down again "out of safety concerns". The one positive in this would be to again have the committee meetings recorded.

 

Funny you should mention that! According to the Bylaws, Article V, Section 5, "All meetings of the Board, excluding Executive Session, shall be open and video recorded with time allotted for Members to make comments"

But of course we all know the Board doesn't follow their own rules even though the word "shall" leaves no other option!

 

I think the argument there goes those are "committee meetings" and not "board meetings." Committee meetings were never taped until the pandemic at which point they started recording them which was a good thing. As aggie noted, they just went away in a poof of smoke. and a hearty high ho silver, away (damn, showing my age on that one).

BY THE FREAKING WAY...KUDOS TO ALL PAYING ATTENTION, CROSSED THE 6000 READ THRESHOLD TODAY.

Easily the most read thread since our inception way back when. And, more exciting news, but we'll save that for the next day or two.

 

And I would argue that Article V, Section 5 is specifically and titled for "Meetings of the Board." Committee requirements are specified in Article X!!!

I won't argue with that but that's not saying it was the correct thing to do. I was once told by a director that "sometimes we follow Robert's Rules and sometimes we don't."
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way! If the bylaws specify that the meetings shall be video recorded and they're not, then what stops them from suddenly disallowing Member comments?

 

Don't get me started on the "correct" things to do; i could fill a book with them. It's what happens when you remove the communities voice from the discussion. The rewritten by-laws step by step created the place where we are today. One sitting board member gets angry when i write about the true concept of self-governance and ownership by all of us living here, but that's exactly what this thread has been about.

It started when they slipped plan 2 of the Mountainview project into the mix where they carved out 3 clubs (pickleball, lawn bowling and tennis) and two other activities (mini-golf and horse shoes) and just said with a smirk, "oh well," someday, maybe. Then they arrogantly dispensed with the third reading, a mover Karen rightfully questioned and was scorned for the idea they should show more respect to the members than that. Finally, to add insult to injury, they fired Karen the next day at a meeting she wasn't even at to defend against their actions.

If this was a one-off it would be bad enough, but it's not, this has been going on for years and no one has ever held their feet to the fire. It does appear this time they may have stepped in it big time. More on that later.

 

Just curious but... Director McAdam was kicked off the board way back on June 25th and the only way we all found out about it was from word of mouth and this blog.

Has anybody seen or heard any official mention about this coming out of the RCSC? I haven't! What's up with that?

 

Executive session. Those words send tremors through the board members as everything there is sacred and under penalty of death...well that may be a bit strong...it actually gives them cover to do as they please and answer to no one.

 

There is only one way to hold the boards feet to the fire.

That is for the Members to get involved and show up in mass to confront the board.

Will this ever happen? - probably not. History over the past 15 years shows little interest on the part of the Members to get involved.
Go back over the past board meetings and you will see that at best there may have been 25 to 30 people in the audience.
And most of those attending had their own agenda - Dog park, Softball, etc, etc.

FYI is correct - so far all we have is word of mouth from some individuals who spout "credible sources" but nothing from the board or Karen.
If anyone is going to spout "credible sources" please name names.

So far it has all been here-say. No board comments, nothing from Karen.

If and until we here from ALL those involved can or should we make judgements.

I liked Karen as a board member as she spoke her mind and did not fall in line with all the other board members.

We need 9 board members just like Karen.

My opinion only.

Lets see what happens in September.

 

I get it, mums the word in executive session but surly you would think there would be some sort of explanation of why Director McAdam's photo was removed from the website?

If nothing else, the RCSC could have reported that there's been, or going to be a change made in the board of directors?!?!?!?

Robert's Rules 9:26 Rules Relating to the Secrecy of an Executive Session"...For example, if during executive session a member is expelled or an officer is removed from office, that fact may be disclosed to the extent described in 63:3."

63:3 "If (after trial) a member is expelled or an officer is removed from office, the society has the right to disclose the fact circulating it only to the extent required for the protection of the the society or, possibly of other organizations. Neither the society nor any of its members has the right to make public the charge of which an officer or member has been found guilty, or reveal any other details connected with the case..."

Bottom line: We could have and should have been told!

...And lets not even begin to talk about "after trial"! That's where, in my opinion, Arizona Revised Statute Title 10-3621 comes into play!

 

One question looms larger than ever after this post FYI:
What freaking trial?

 

The trial she was suppose to get under Title 10 because the RCSC articles of incorporation or bylaws didn't provide for one!

Isn't it all just so pathetic?

 

I need to make a correction...in a previous post I speculated that it was Karen McAdam and Darla Atkins who were the two missing directors from the Executive Session only because Darla was not at the Thursday meeting of the board. I have since found out that it was Steve Collins who did not attend the Executive Session and not Darla. I apologize if that previous post caused Steve any repercussions!

 

Not surprising to hear Collins didn't vote for her ouster, he was the person on the board who often voted with Karen. The other 7 like to be a close-knit bunch who march in lockstep.

 

At some point i will start a new thread where we talk about going forward rather than looking back. For now though, let me post this here, lots of followers so we might as well keep pushing the peanut up the hill. I had an hour long discussion with two people from the community, asking what we could do about what happened to Karen and how little respect the board/management has shown towards the community at large.

As i am want to do, i took the liberty of explaining over the past 15 years the community has been neutered by managements rewriting of our documents and supported by boards with nary a whimper. I know it gets boring, but it is exactly why we are in the position we are in today. If those documents hadn't been rewritten, the community/members could have stopped it all dead in its tracks. In fact, had they not taken the safeguards out, i dare say they would never even have tried to do what they are doing.

With the ancient history out of the way, they asked, "what's next?" I've thought about this a lot since Karen was fired. Then when i had a long chat with Barbara Brehm, my sense of indignation grew even more. I learned in my previous life a handful of angry/frustrated people can't do much. In fact, my previous work life taught me the more people involved and engaged in an action, the more likely the ability to impact decisions. Essentially what i told them and what i am telling any of you reading this, whining about things does nothing. Putting your butts in chairs come the September meetings will be the first most powerful step you/we can take.

We need to see if it's real or imagined? Lots of time between now and then, but if what is happening in our community is bothering you it's time to invest in your future. For some reason, the shift to where the management/board has replaced the concept of community is so out of touch and out of tune with how we were created and why we were successful is distressing. This community belongs to everyone, not a handful of board members.

 

Can somebody PLEASE send an article to Rusty Bradshaw at the Independent requesting that all those who care about their community and the fact that the RCSC's Board has gone rogue with the dismissal of Director McAdam and Director Brehm to show-up and attend the September meeting of the board to show them our displeasure.

If we allow them to continually get away with their actions they will soon be coming after us for voicing our own opinion! Are you willing to have your card privilege's suspended for simply and openly disagreeing with the board's decision?

I would do it myself but the Independent will only allow one article per person per month to be printed and I have already met that quota!

 

Not to worry FYI, as we get close to the Sept meeting, there will be letters to the editor encouraging members to show up and share their concerns. The only real questions is, how big will the push be to drive the turnout?

 

Interesting. I'm not a pickleball player, tried it once but my three time replaced knees are more better suited to lawn bowling. However, my wife plays occasionally. Yesterday after a morning game at Marinette she returned home with an idea that is being kicked around within the pickleball community. Rather than leaving the loss of their courts to the rec board members who have shown no interest in finding a venue down south, they have developed a proposal/plan. Great idea because the one thing we can agree on is once MV closes any of the sports played there, it will be a minimum of 4 or 5 years before something is built on that site in the third phase of the plan.

The rumor is the board is feeling the heat from the firing of Director McAdam and they are compelled to find ways to diffuse their angst. Building courts south of Grand is the right thing to do, especially given the extended timeline for the three phases of the Mountainview project. That said, they have ignored the other clubs concerns regarding losing their facilities by just pretending they are insignificant.

And so i am clear, while i was on the board (more than a half a dozen years ago), the general manager told clubs they didn't need to keep or submit usage numbers. One of the directors has been pushing for utilization numbers, but by everyone's admission, what they are using is far from accurate. Now apparently, they are trying to justify closing clubs and taking their venues based on bad numbers.

Finally the proposed plan being bantered about actually kills a couple of birds with one stone. We know the water management plan the state will shove in our face in 2025 has us looking at (using today's cost) roughly 4 million dollars to replace the areas at the South course they won't provide water for (roughs). Seems logical to me to try and start reducing those non-fairway areas now and take advantage of all that "dead space."

Good job guys.

 

But, remember when the Vintage Vehicle Club had pursued plans to put their building near the maintenance facility on South Golf Course? They were shut down because Management said that golf course property could only be used for the sport of golf. They'll probably pull that out of their hat and use that rational again. It would be great to get some impartial legal opinions regarding usage & taxes on golf course real estate. If it is only a matter of increased taxes on the non-golf portion of property I'm sure the RCSC could find the funds for the difference.

 

Oops, that argument won't fly aggie. The RCSC trades building is now sitting next to the Willowbrook/Willowcreek golf maintenance building. Worked out well because when Wellman was shuffled off from the asst gm job his new offices were close to his house. Then they promoted C.H. to that job who lasted until they made him the head of new construction which lasted about as long as the asst. gm job. Now they've got a building guy (that's a good thing in that he knows construction) and a slew of other folks on the management team. Kind of makes one wonder about who's doing what and how they arrive at what anyone is qualified to do?